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overbore
06-27-2008, 10:40 AM
Read and ask yourself carefully
C an
O bama
M anage
M y Money
E ffectively?? :D:D Overbore

Phil Deese
06-27-2008, 03:03 PM
If you call managing, taking it............I think that's his plan!!:(:(:(

alinwa
06-27-2008, 07:22 PM
Indubutably, ;)


Maybe
Barack
Enjoys
Going
Into
Needy
Neighborhoods
Inspiring
Nice,
Gentle
Togetherness.
Or.....
The
Hierarchy
Involved
Needed a
Komissioner,
Someone
Ownable

Old Timer
06-27-2008, 08:15 PM
I tell you all what, I would not vote for Mr Obama to head up the dog pound in my town, do what you want. But when it all goes south I'm gona scream the loudest and say I told you so.

Mr. D
06-27-2008, 08:20 PM
I tell you all what, I would not vote for Mr Obama to head up the dog pound in my town, do what you want. But when it all goes south I'm gona scream the loudest and say I told you so.

It's hard for me to compute how so many of you conservatives still claim to have all the answers about who should be president after voting for Bush TWICE? How can you now claim to have good judgement? Please explain! It sure would shake my judgement! :D

Zebra13
06-27-2008, 08:43 PM
It's hard for me to compute how so many of you conservatives still claim to have all the answers about who should be president after voting for Bush TWICE? How can you now claim to have good judgement? Please explain! It sure would shake my judgement! :D

Bush won twice because the other option was voting for the two potted plants the Democratic Party put forth.

Justin

Jay, Idaho
06-27-2008, 09:25 PM
It is about priorities, period.
Vote McCain if you are concerned primarily with national security, second amendment, a Supreme Court that doesn't go off to the Left, expanding domestic oil production. reigning in spending on "entitlements".
Vote Obama if you are concerned about abortion on demand, free medical care for everybody, forced conservation and alternative energy at any cost, restricting the economy, income redistribution.

There is no correct or incorrect way to vote, just what is important to you.
Obama may get elcted and will have a Democratic Congress. It will be interesting to see how he is remembered in about 20-30 years.
I'm still looking for a bomb from the Clintons, Hillary does NOT want him elected this year. She wants to run in 2012.

overbore
06-27-2008, 10:10 PM
That is what he is going to leave us in our pockets. Donut Tester, you are 100% but dang!!! Phil, I expected you to read the sublimimal vertical message. Overbore

overbore
07-03-2008, 11:05 AM
has always been highly problimatical as I get counfused when my kaupphy gettz two low--. :D:D Overbore ps

Intelligently associated wth Hal f-Honkey??- absurdity. :D O

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-03-2008, 11:28 AM
"W", but Al gore or John Kerry ("Mr hero") as an alternative :eek: Regretdully, I seem to be voting for the lesser of two evils today. WHY OH WHY couldn't the Democrats select a REAL candidate ?




It's hard for me to compute how so many of you conservatives still claim to have all the answers about who should be president after voting for Bush TWICE? How can you now claim to have good judgement? Please explain! It sure would shake my judgement! :D

tlo
07-03-2008, 11:52 AM
It's hard for me to compute how so many of you conservatives still claim to have all the answers about who should be president after voting for Bush TWICE? How can you now claim to have good judgement? Please explain! It sure would shake my judgement! :D

I think your right! Are republicans not supposed to be conservatives, look at the mess we're in now.

gt40
07-03-2008, 01:05 PM
> > CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS? :confused:
> >
> > This is very interesting and we all need to read it from
> > start to Finish and send it on to anyone who will read it. Maybe this is
> > why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any
> > atrocities. Can a good Muslim be a good American? This question was
> > forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The
> > following is his reply:
> >
> > Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to
> > Allah, The moon God of Arabia .
> >
> > Religiously - no. . . Because no other religion is
> > accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)
> >
> > Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the
> > five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
> >
> & gt; Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to
> > Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.& lt; BR>
> > Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam
> > forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews
> >
> > Politically - no. . . Because he must submit to the
> > mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and
> > destruction of America , the great Satan.
> >
> > Domestically - no. . . Because he is instructed to marry
> > four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran
> > 4:34)
> >
> > Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the
> > American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he
> > believes the Bible to be corrupt.
> >
> > Philosophically - no. . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and
> > the Quran do es not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy
> > and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial
> > or autocratic.
> >
> > Spiritually - no. . . Because when we declare 'one
> > nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah
> > is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in
> > The Quran's 99 excellent names.
> >
> > Therefore, after much study and deliberati on....
> >
> > Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in
> > this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and
> > good Americans.
> >
> > Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had
> > better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be
> > for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know
> > or understand. . ...
> >
> > And Barack Hussein Obama, a Muslim, wants to be our
> > President? You have GOT to be kidding! Wake up America !
> >
> > Obama even says if he wins the election, he will be
> > sworn in on the Quran---not a Bible!
> >
> > Footnote: He was sworn in on the Quran for his current
> > office and he refuses to pledge allegiance to the United States or put
> > his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is played! The Muslims
> > have said they will destroy us from within. Hello! Having a Muslim
> > president would seem to fit the bill! Will you trust this man with our
> > national secrets?
> >
> >
> > SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
> >
> > THE MARINES WANT THIS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S.

nrb
07-03-2008, 02:16 PM
literally 10,000 different religions in the world today, each worship the GOD of their choice. That in itself does not make one right and the others wrong. One does NOT have to worship a certain GOD to be an American.
Your statement has nothing to do with GT40's comments. The problem is that the koran does NOT agree with the U. S. Constitution and many of our laws. GT's statements are worthy of your detailed comments, not your non sequitor.

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 02:46 PM
literally 10,000 different religions in the world today, each worship the GOD of their choice. That in itself does not make one right and the others wrong. One does NOT have to worship a certain GOD to be an American.

...but we as voters get to look at a candidate and make a decision based upon their beliefs or lack there of if that is important in our decision for potus.

I wonder why Obama is RUNNING AWAY from his muslim heritage if religion does not matter & REALLY trying to get the point across that he is a Christian??

I don't Trust obama....

pf

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 04:04 PM
but again, religion, heritage, his form of prayer should not be a factor in our decision about what is best for our country. .

...all huge factors for what I want in my next president. I suspenct that is why he is trying to sweep them under the rug. His past has a history that he does not think will sit well w/ voters so he is trying to change his stripes. I would have more respect for the man if he hadn't. Obviously, he or his advisors are ashamed from where he came from.

Again, I'm not for JM...just very much against obama.

pf

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 04:37 PM
your opinion Paul. Myself, I don't care if our next president is from Mars. If he or she can lead our great country back to prosperity and good standing with what used to be our allies, while keeping us safe and serving the country's best interest rather than for political gain, that's the one that gets my vote.


....amigo, but I'm not interested keeping the world happy. I want a president who thinks of the U.S. first and U.N. last. A lot of our 'allies' Just want to hug us so they can stab us in the back. I think obama would pander to our allies wants & needs before our own. Not to mention the gun rights issue which mainly drives my vote.

For me, this election is a no-brainer.

Mr. D
07-03-2008, 05:24 PM
If people want to see the truth they will! If people want to believe prejudicial cr@p they will! That's why the smell of some swiftboater cr@p lingers on and on! Some people need to feed their prejudices rather than deal with the real issues between the candidates. Sad!

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 05:24 PM
Why do you think McCain is in Columbia and Mexico this week? .

...typical politics I guess to make sure all our dea agents can keep a job. Don't get me started on the drug war.

You must have become numb to all the left coast gun regs and want the rest of us to have them if you are still supporting obama....an ffl, for shame:-)

pf

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 05:26 PM
If people want to see the truth they will! If people want to believe prejudicial cr@p they will! That's why the smell of some swiftboater cr@p lingers on and on! Some people need to feed their prejudices rather than deal with the real issues between the candidates. Sad!


...nothing new here, move along.

pf

Mr. D
07-03-2008, 05:30 PM
...nothing new here, move along.

pf

................absolutely right, its the same ole swiftboating!

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 06:03 PM
I to this day have my current CCW in Arizona. The gun laws here pertain to this state. The states have the authority to regulate certain aspects of who can have what and what is legal by way of state law. I don't for one second believe that Obama can have overturned the ruling of our high court. The Constitution is clear, was found to be of sound writing by our founding fathers per our Justices and we won. Unless we end up in another civil war in this country and the constitution is amended, no amount of Democrats or Republicans is going to change it. None of us know what will be in office when that person is sworn in. We can only hope that the person elected will hold the interests of "we the people" in high regard.

..of time??

You think a post or comment anywhere on these threads has changed any minds?? I think we all knew how we were going to vote some time ago. Is there anything I can tell you my friend that will convince you I think obama is really bad for America??

I have issues with obama and there is nothing that will change my views of this individual. I know what I see and I do not think he has any character & he goes against my conservative views on some key topics. Not sure why I even comment on it. I doubt I can swing any to the JM corner at this point.

swiftboating....that will do it:-)

pf

koginam
07-03-2008, 06:31 PM
I will not vote for Obama for a lot of reasons, but where did you get this information about Obama being sworn in on the Koran? I don't believe that, from everything I have been able to find about him he is a christian, foolishness like this brings into doubt those things that are true and make him unfit for the leadership of this country.

Mr.D I voted for Bush twice and I'm proud of it. Can you say the same for those who voted for the coward clinton a draft dodger, womanizer, rapist, , liar, or the nutcase gore, and his global warming scam, or maybe Kerry who was a braggart and a liar who betrayed his fellow countrymen with lies and distortions. Yes the Democrats have a lot to be proud of.

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 06:35 PM
No where did I say anything was a waste of time. At no time have I said someone should vote one way or another. Where have I used language that would suggest a vote one way or the other? I have merely stated some opinions, observations and facts. Again, the words are twisted, misplaced or otherwise manipulated to suit ones agenda. I have not, nor will I tell you, you are wrong for voting for your choice. This is one of the problems with the manipulation of some of these threads. There is plenty you can tell me about Obama, but nothing I haven't heard already. I really do resent your comments.

...nor were the comments meant or directed towards you with any malice amigo. I was just throwing them up in the air as 'I' personally feel 'this' is a waste of time at some point.

I read my post again and didn't read anything that I thought was hurtful and if you took it the wrong way, you have my apologies. You are one of the very few on the other side (sometimes) who's opinion and posts I enjoy and respect. I guess I should not have quoted you for giving the wrong impression of an attack of some kind.

I just thought you might agree in some aspect.

peace....

pf

RStiefel
07-03-2008, 06:44 PM
Nothing has changed in that respect. There has been a great deal I have openly admitted to respecting from both you and others. Your apology is accepted with my respect for you. I work with numerous Texans at every outage (refueling, reactor head replacements, steam generator replacements) all over the country, both Democrat and Republican. We don't always agree, but we have something in common that we share everyday. The ability to work together and get the job done safely and on time. The key word being "together".

koginam
07-03-2008, 07:08 PM
Does the name JUANITA BROADDRICK sound familiar? She was raped by the coward clinton in 1978, No he was not convicted because of the statute of limitations, but he did not sue her for liable nor did the government go after her for purgery when she testified about the rape during clintons impeachment.

Yote
07-03-2008, 08:08 PM
I will not vote for Obama for a lot of reasons, but where did you get this information about Obama being sworn in on the Koran? I don't believe that, from everything I have been able to find about him he is a christian, foolishness like this brings into doubt those things that are true and make him unfit for the leadership of this country.


kogiman,

All due respect but Obama isn't a Christian. He can claim it but his beliefs say something different.

Yote
07-03-2008, 08:38 PM
a practicing Muslim, but I don't recall him ever being accused of terrorism. He certainly had his chances to kill his opponents in the ring. Isn't that what Muslims do? It's a sad day and time we live in, in this country when so much hate and bias has to come into play because of the religion or belief of another. Obama is an American, and should be treated with the same rights and freedoms the rest of us enjoy. How many would really feel this way if this war on terror and 9/11 never took place? He may not be the right choice to lead our country, but he certainly has the right to give it his best shot without being belittled because he might be of Muslim decent. What happened to the fairness and freedom we once stood for?

I'm sorry, is your quote in response to me saying he isn't a Christian?:confused:

Yote
07-03-2008, 08:54 PM
RStiefel,

I wasn't aware I was making excuses for his religion or beliefs. I really don't know what his religion is. I do know based on statements from his website that he can't be a Christian. I don't know what religion has those beliefs.

gt40
07-03-2008, 08:57 PM
your opinion Paul. Myself, I don't care if our next president is from Mars. If he or she can lead our great country back to prosperity and good standing with what used to be our allies, while keeping us safe and serving the country's best interest rather than for political gain, that's the one that gets my vote.

RStiefel is right on with his comment "BUT":

The problem I have with Obama is that I have no idea what he believes and what he is inclined to do if elected. His voting record is completely the opposite of what I would have wanted. All the rest of the votes that he posted when present to vote was "PRESENT". This to me shows that he has no backbone to stand up for what he really thinks and believes in.

We need a leader that is a LEADER not someone that hides when he thinks that it will help him get votes. Everything that he has made a stand on before he started his campaign and everything he has said after the beginning of his campaign he has changed his opinion on.

It is amazing to watch him (Obama) from ultra liberal moving to the center.

The only conclusion that I can come to is that he will only say things that will get him votes and if he is elected he will revert back to the beliefs that stated before he started to run for president. :eek:

I can't understand why the liberals think the American people are so stupid. I hope to God that they are wrong. If he is elected it will prove that the government schools have taught us to be dumb and down. :o

Just my .02,

gt40

Yote
07-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Yote,

The statement was made in the general sense. Not directed to any certain person.

Understood:D

Yote
07-03-2008, 09:42 PM
The only conclusion that I can come to is that he will only say things that will get him votes and if he is elected he will revert back to the beliefs that stated before he started to run for president. :eek:




gt,

I'm afraid all of them are doing that. Right on down to Nader.

Wouldn't it be refreshing to have a candidate that said what he meant, and meant what he said?

koginam
07-03-2008, 09:48 PM
RStiefel
Most rape victims do not report the rape, that is a fact.
I only have this to say if he didn't do it why didn't he sue her for slander? why didn't the justice department charge her with purgery? if I was falsely accused I would do anything to clear my name.
I don't know where you got the information that not many believed her but you are mistaken.
I have no problem labeling him a rapist, not being convicted because of a legal technacality is not the same as being innocent of the crime.

gt40
07-03-2008, 10:01 PM
We have voting records of them all. Obamas sure is different. Sure is scary, for me any way.

Now the big push on us "ignorant" voters. " OIL and COAL" makes us all sick.

Oh my God!!! We better stop using it. We're all going to get sick and die! :eek::eek:

Do you really think that the liberals think you are smart and have a "good" education. I doubt it!!!

They think you are stupid and talk to you like you are. Just open your eyes & ears. They do it right out in the open now and the stupid ones believe and follow. :o

gt40

PS: Not pointing a finger at anyone personal.

Paul Fielder
07-03-2008, 10:21 PM
We have voting records of them all. Obamas sure is different. Sure is scary, for me any way.

Now the big push on us "ignorant" voters. " OIL and COAL" makes us all sick.

Oh my God!!! We better stop using it. We're all going to get sick and die! :eek::eek:

Do you really think that the liberals think you are smart and have a "good" education. I doubt it!!!

They think you are stupid and talk to you like you are. Just open your eyes & ears. They do it right out in the open now and the stupid ones believe and follow. :o

gt40



PS: Not pointing a finger at anyone personal.

...to move towards the center & now the center candidate is trying to move towards the right. To GET votes.

pf

RStiefel
07-03-2008, 10:26 PM
we will finally get one in office that will actually do what he says. Wouldn't that be refreshing and a first in this country?

koginam
07-03-2008, 10:42 PM
It would be hard to have a retrial since their was no trial to begin with due to the statute of limitations, that's one of the laws he didn't get made retroactive.
Your right in many cases suing someone is the best answer and that is one of the reasons our rule of law is as good as it is. We have a recourse that anyone can use.
A man with honor would fight to clear his name to the end, but you might be right about the coward clinton, Maybe he wanted it to come to an end. Maybe he was sick of the exposure. But instead of trying to clear his name when he got into trouble he bombed Kosovo or the aspirin factory in Sudan to take the heat off. How many people died to cover his ass?

My certainty is based on his lack of character, honesty, honor, and past acts towards women.
If it smells like dog crap, looks like dog crap, and the dog is standing over it im certain it is dog crap

gt40
07-03-2008, 11:15 PM
...to move towards the center & now the center candidate is trying to move towards the right. To GET votes.

pf

Paul Fielder,

Right is right. :p

gt40

Bill Leeper
07-04-2008, 12:12 AM
Obama may well be unable to manage the nation's money. This would make him just like any other president in recent memory. Just how far in debt is the US right now?
No matter who the next president is, how he manages money or anything else will depend on how well he picks the people who will actually run things.
We wouldn't even be having this conversation if a long line of administrations, Democrat and Republican, had not run it into the ditch. Many people might vote for Obama just on the theory that any change is worth a try. I'm not saying this is a good thing, just that it is the way things are.
I can't help but think McCain is the more honorable choice but maybe that's just me. I think McCain might be more inclined to see better treatment of our veterans and that's important to us. Injured and disabled soldiers deserve better than they are getting right now. Regards, Bill.

gt40
07-04-2008, 02:12 AM
Bill. On the other hand, Obama did a pretty good job of managing his own money as he progressed through life. He wasn't given his education on a silver platter. He worked the entire time he put himself through school. That takes good management skills. He was able to raise an enormous amount of money for his campaign. Again, not so easy as a Democrat who historically don't have big business behind them. Having lived in the state John McCain presided over as senator, and also voting for him, I watched legislation passed on more than one occasion that did nothing less than take even more money from the tax payers in Arizona. It is my feeling that both candidates are wrong for our country for different reasons. We can solve the fuel problem with the right kind of effort. We can end the war in Iraq by ending it. When we say "see it through to the end", what exactly is "the end"? There are terrorists all over the world. We are safer only because we are told so. You can prepare mentally for an attack, but it is physically impossible to defend against anything you can't see, or don't know is coming. That is the advantage of "surprise". No matter which one wins, if we don't change and change soon, we will become a country no longer feared by anyone.


RStiefel

If I am not mistaken what you said about Obama not being handed his education on a silver platter is inaccurate. And if we quit the war on terror ALL AROUND THE WORLD like we have been doing no one will fear us. I'd like to see a prize fighter put down his gloves in the middle of a fight and I guess in your way of thinking he would win the championship.

To me that makes no sense.

gt40

nrb
07-04-2008, 10:47 AM
CHANGE,CHANGE,CHANGE,CHANGE,CHANGE,CHANGE,
Here are a few questions for Osama Obama
What exactly is he going to CHANGE in the USA?
How can we trust someone with TWO (2) muslim fathers?
How can we trust someone who "belongs" to a racist church?
What exactly will he do to combat the islamic threat to the USA and to other countries?
What kind of tax structure does he propose for us?
How will he reform social security?
What does he propose for health care and how do we pay?
What will he do to upgrade and reform our military?
What does he propose for homosexual marriage?
What does he propose for gun control?
What will he do to control illegal immigration, to control the border, to deal with the millions of illegal immigrants in the USA?
What is he doing about the energy problem?
What is his position on drilling for oil in the USA and offshore?
plus one hundred more questions concerning the future of the USA.

gt40
07-04-2008, 10:57 AM
nrb,

His answers to all your questions are?

I really do not know, but when I am elected I will figure it out and let you know. Something like Ross Perot said in his failed bid for the Presidency. :eek:

gt40

koginam
07-04-2008, 05:02 PM
Yes McCain was handed his education. In case you don't know in order to have your education handed to you, as you put it, in a military academy you must agree to serve in the armed forces for a period of time, Here is how john McCain got his free ride.
A 1958 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, McCain had a 22-year military career as a pilot and officer in the Navy. Five of those years (1967-73) were spent in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp after he was shot down over Hanoi during the Vietnam War.

As to running out of Allies, I just returned from Europe, I traveled to the UK, Germany, France, Poland, Belgium, Switzerland, and Finland, We stayed in Bed & Breakfasts and with friends, The people in those countries were always supportive and warned us of the problems we were about to find our selves in if we didn't start curbing our immigration policies. Thanks to satellite TV many watch Fox News so they have a different view of the war then what their governments have. They face the troubles brought by a lax immigration policy allowing thousands of immigrants to come into their countries and try to change their cultures not assimilate into their host countries morals, or life style.

gt40
07-04-2008, 06:10 PM
RStiefel ,

Obama's grandmother sent him to an expensive private school in Hawaii which gave him his start and didn't he get grants or scholarships? I never had any help and was able put myself through school and to work hard and manage my money to raise 3 boys. I put them through college, have owned 4 homes, and at present 5 cars including a gt40. This kind of management skills should make me qualified to be president? I doubt it.

Have you ever heard of the Philippines, Nigeria, Sudan, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Ethiopia, Somalia, Yemen, Libya, Angola, Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, Sierra Leone, Ghana, Pakistan, Columbia and God only knows what other places our military have been hunting down and either capturing or killing terrorists in.

As for our alias they are slowly coming around like France that just elected a conservative president. All of them have been helping the US and each other in the fight against terror. France, Spain, England, Germany and Italy are having big problems with the Muslims in their countries. Just like we are starting to have when the administrators of some of our PUBLIC schools build baths for washing their feet and have the Muslim students pray in their auditoriums and our Christian and Jewish students are band from doing. :eek:

If we drop our gloves in the middle of the fight we WILL be given a knockout punch. Count on it!!!!

Just my .02,

gt40

PS: If Obama IS elected I "HOPE" he will be the best president this country has ever had!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gt40
07-04-2008, 06:57 PM
or down, that knock out punch can be delivered at any time. We can no more rid the world of terrorists than we can bigotry and bias. They have existed for thousands of years.

Yes it could happen, but why not try to stop them every chance we get?????

Have you ever heard of the "Crusades"?

OK, lets bring our troops home and give up on killing as many terrorists as we can and let them grow in numbers and probably get a nuclear bomb inside one of our cities. :eek:

After it explodes and kills millions including your relatives in NEW York you can say it didn't make any difference because I told you that they would do it anyway.

What I can not understand how some people with no knowledge of military tactics can think that if you close your eyes and it will go away. :eek:

gt40

nrb
07-04-2008, 08:30 PM
Then we could bring our islamic armies home, stop wasting our money on war, donate all churches and synagogues to islam to convert to islamic temples. Burn the Constitution and convert to sharia law, make our trips to mecca and destroy all monuments in District of Columbia and elsewhere, eliminate Congress and bring in the holy islamic councils, etc.

Keep thinking like you do RS and this is your fate.

gt40
07-05-2008, 12:44 AM
I agree with you completely, but for instance look at Israel and their surrounding killers. They want to wipe Israel from the earth. Israel is still there and the killers in the surrounding countries are there. The world has known about and watched terrorism growing for ages. Yes, we have to do our part, but where does it end? We can't kill them all, so when does it end? Can we continue to spend money we don't have forever? Ask our military to sacrifice their lives until we run out of troops? It has quickly gotten to the point that fewer and fewer people are willing to join the military. The US Army has already stated they don't have near the amount of troops they need and thought they would have. Fewer are joining. Too many innocent people are dying on both sides. Iraq will never be able or capable of protecting themselves without our presence there. Are we willing to tell our armed forces and their families they might have to stay there for the next 25 or more years.

RStiefel,

Israel has been changing. The people there are being warn down over the years. They are also worried about what the rest of the world thinks of them (Like LIBERALS in the US do). Screw the rest of the world!!! Protect your people and their way of life. This is the most important thing a President is supposed to do!

Look what happened in their last war with Hamas in Lebanon. Hamas was a rag tag gorilla group with no aircraft and no tanks only some rifles and toy rockets. It wasn't like the 6 Day War was it!!! Israel has almost all of the world against it except the USA to come to its aid. What has the United Nations and the European countries ever done to stop the killing of the Jews? The next time if Iraq drops a nuclear bomb on Israel they will all be either annilated or they will have no choice than to retaliate with Syria, Iran, the Palestinians and maybe other countries with nuclear weapons of their own. I would not be surprised if they have 150 or more of them.

If Israel attacks Iran all the other Arabs all around them will attack back. :eek: And I would support Israel 100%.

As for tactics I do not think that all these "smart" weapons are helping world peace. I believe in the tactics of WW2. Carpet bomb and napalm huge areas of the enemy and their supporters. When we did that to Europe and Japan the survivors that crawled out of the rubble became our alias. When your enemy wants to destroy you they eventually will unless you do it to them first. War is not a game and ever since WW2 the world has treated it like it was a game because they let politics get involved.

Only time will tell, but I think that Iraq will be able to defend themselves. They did it for 8 years against Iran and with our superior military arms in their hands I think they will do just fine.

I guess I'm up to 10 cents now, :D

gt40

PS: If we need to fight them for a thousand years lets do it. They haven't stopped trying to take over the world for the last 1,000 years have they? If you don't know your history it will repeat its self and you could possibly lose.

Jay, Idaho
07-05-2008, 01:04 AM
Maybe we should learn some things from Israel. Always retaliate against the enemy with many times the force and destruction that we have suffered. It sure works for Israel. They CANNOT lose any war or they will cease to exist. They see survival as number one priority for their country and act accordingly. We seem to put national defense and security way down on the list. I put it way ahead of ANWR, salmon runs, abortion, daycare or whatever is being touted as important to voters this Fall.
Contractors are filling in quite well where we lack sufficient military personell. That can be expanded as needed. Each pay increase or added benefit to our military will bump the number of elistments and reenlistments.
Another attack like 9/11 might get our focus back on track. We forget so quickly, sometimes.

gt40
07-05-2008, 01:24 AM
Jay,

Please read my post just above yours about Israel. :eek:

gt40

ultramag44
07-05-2008, 10:42 AM
I'm still looking for a bomb from the Clintons, Hillary does NOT want him elected this year. She wants to run in 2012.

I have to respecfully disagree on that one. Several reasons

A. The Klintons are no longer the the two whiz kids of the liberal media. That ship sailed when an unknown, no-legislation-w/-his-name-on-it, No policies, (just a good line of gab and hope), dark horse, (no pun intended) came from behind to eclipse the Klintons. The Klintons are washed up, old news now. Billiery/Bill = OUT Barrack/Michelle = IN

B. No one will carry a bomb shell for Klinton now, perhaps Rush, Sean, etc. We listen to them, but not the overall voting pubilc. A bomb shell leak will be largely ignored by mainsteam media (see A. above). Besides that only works once, like when she, through functionary's of hers and Bill, got Kerry to make his military service the centerpiece of his campain. She WANTED G.W. B. re-elected.

C. She could not go against a sitting president of her own party. Political suicide that. She is now tolerated like a old, nice, slightly senile aunt who wears depends (see B. above).

D. She is almost 63 y/o. She knows she is will be to old by 2012. Men get a pass on age, not women. She knew 2008 was her ONE shot @ the prize. This was a long range plan that most likely went back 20 or 25 years.

NY is 90% rural, she is disliked about Westchester Co. NY. It's only the 7 million skeeves in NYC that got her elected. She couldn't give 2 feces about NY, was just a spring board to 2008.

Ronald Reagan...We need him back!

vinny
07-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Maybe we should learn some things from Israel. Always retaliate against the enemy with many times the force and destruction that we have suffered. It sure works for Israel. They CANNOT lose any war or they will cease to exist. They see survival as number one priority for their country and act accordingly. We seem to put national defense and security way down on the list. I put it way ahead of ANWR, salmon runs, abortion, daycare or whatever is being touted as important to voters this Fall.
Contractors are filling in quite well where we lack sufficient military personell. That can be expanded as needed. Each pay increase or added benefit to our military will bump the number of elistments and reenlistments.
Another attack like 9/11 might get our focus back on track. We forget so quickly, sometimes.

Jay
I couldn't agree with you more. Human beings have "Built in forgetters"! I told my wife not long after 9/11 "I give people 6 months and the patriotism and courtesy that we have seen a rise in since 9/11 will end" she asked why I simply said "Built in forgetters". It'll take the incineration of a major city for the citizens of the U.S. to stand up and scream "enough". I know longer believe our Government can protect us, they have allowed their hands to be tied by activist judges and politicians who care more for how we appear to the world then how well were willing to defend ourselves. I know people who actually believe 9/11 was set up by Israel and the U.S.. Needless to say there from the extreme left, in fact I would go so far as to say these people do not even represent the far left, these guys are from "planet 0". I don't know what its going to take, but I am concerned with the following, If Obama gets elected with a Democratically controlled Congress and Senate for two years what kind of Judges will they appoint. What will leaders like "Flower child Pelosi" or "The war is lost" Reid do to protect us. They make me nervous! I admire their "speak softly" approach, but at the end of their "little stick" is a white flag.
vinny

chino69
07-05-2008, 11:59 AM
What will leaders like "Flower child Pelosi" or "The war is lost" Reid do to protect us. They make me nervous! I admire their "speak softly" approach, but at the end of their "little stick" is a white flag.
vinny


Vinny,
I'm with you. These people are so isolated from reality, it makes me nervous too! This whole bizarre scenario reminds me of George Orwell's prophetic novel 'Animal Farm'. The American public is like the old mule who faithfully pulled the cart until the pigs (politicians) secretly sold the mule to the slaughter house.
Chino69

Mr. D
07-06-2008, 05:32 AM
Jay
I couldn't agree with you more. Human beings have "Built in forgetters"! I told my wife not long after 9/11 "I give people 6 months and the patriotism and courtesy that we have seen a rise in since 9/11 will end" she asked why I simply said "Built in forgetters".
vinny

Another interpretation is that the world supported the U.S. on 9/11 and our president threw that support away by giving our allies the arrogant NeoCon finger and spinning the intelligence to support a war the NeoCons wanted as a means to military bases in Iraq!

nrb
07-06-2008, 10:02 AM
Vinny's "built in forgetters" is a wonderful explanation of human psychology and nature.
Along comes the fact twister to twist this interesting thread to his own by equating the neocons and the invasion of Iraq and the loss of world support with the loss of patriotism and care about the U. S. by our citizens.

Old Timer
07-06-2008, 10:43 AM
The more I hear from him he just seems to have the personality of a car salesmen (will say anything to make the sale)

Hope there are no car salesmen here:p

Mr. D
07-06-2008, 10:43 AM
There can be other reasons people feel the way they do. Some are sick of trying to change the world to our liking with bombs. What we are doing in Iraq can hardly be called self defense no matter how some try to spin it. Afghanistan "Yes", Iraq "No"!

nrb
07-06-2008, 12:43 PM
Speaking of bombing, I think we western civilized folks have been "bombed" many, many times in the past decades by islamists before we took any actions to DEFEND our civilization from these savages. I am happy some have retired from their guard duty and no longer "defend" the U. S. but offer their warped opinions as hogwaste.

Mr. D
07-06-2008, 06:50 PM
Speaking of bombing, I think we western civilized folks have been "bombed" many, many times in the past decades by islamists before we took any actions to DEFEND our civilization from these savages. I am happy some have retired from their guard duty and no longer "defend" the U. S. but offer their warped opinions as hogwaste.

You just can't be civil can you! :confused:

Rusty Carr
07-07-2008, 06:13 PM
I've only been gone 2 weeks, and when I got back, I find this R. Stiefel guy, who has posted, and apparently irritated some of the faithful. What's the deal? Where did he come from? Now he says hs deletes his posts because of the biased moderator. And my friend Mr. D. you ask why we elected GW twice. That's simple, when the choice is the poodle John Kerry. See, I don't believe Swift-boating is a negative term, as I haven't seen eny evidence that there was any untruth in what was alleged. I would vote for GW again if the choice was the same. Well, I'm still glad to be back, and maybe I can figure what it was I missed while I was gone. Thanks, Rusty Carr

Phil Deese
07-07-2008, 08:22 PM
Remember 1992 through 1994..............the American people couldn't wait to throw most of the scoundrels out in 1994!! Of course the republicans were thrown out in 2006 with the last 2 years being disastrous for the economy and the country. Remember Carter....after 4 years of him and a democratic congress, we saw republican presidents for 12 years....Osama might be a good thing....just kidding!!:eek::eek:

gt40
07-08-2008, 12:28 PM
Rusty Carr,

You have missed a lot!!!!!!!!!!! :D

gt40