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Eric Stecker
06-13-2008, 04:56 PM
In the past we have received feedback that some shooters have trouble getting our 7mm 180 gr VLD to work in their rifle. For this reason we are now making a 7mm 180 gr BT (non-VLD) bullet. An additional feature is that this new bullet is made exclusively on the new THICK J4 jackets.

The THICK J4 jackets are meant to significantly reduce if not eliminate bullet failure under the harshest of conditions. So far we have made 6.5mm and 7mm bullets with THICK J4 jackets. 6mm, 22 cal and 30 cal are soon to follow.

These 7mm 180 gr BT-THICK bullets have not been tested yet. To see how they work I need the first ten shooters who can test these bullets by the end of June. If you can do this please send an email to Michelle Gallagher at michelle.gallagher@bergerbullets.com.

It is required that on your email you use the subject line TEST 7MM 180 GR BT-THICK IN JUNE. This will be accepted as your promise to shoot these bullets this month and report your findings to us and on the forum.

The bullets are in stock now and will be shipped at no charge to you on Monday. If they shoot well we'll keep making them, if they don't shoot well for most who test them we won't make them anymore.

Regards,
Eric

Lynn
06-13-2008, 09:51 PM
Dennis when these bullets make it to the market get some for testing in your gun.The Berger BT Match bullets will make that gun scream.
Lynn

rooshooter
06-14-2008, 06:40 AM
Jeeze, I would love some , but I got in too late for the test. I am getting my 180s to work now that I have reduced the charge a bit, but I am definitley keen for the new 180s to be released. Maybe they will handle the higher pressures well. I have 3 barrels to try them in.
Is this new bullets a different shape? How does its BC compare to the old VLD?
Is there any chance of jumping the que and buying some now instead of waiting 1 year for them to come to Australia.

Are there likely to be any 190-200 gn 7mm bullets out in the near future?

ballistic64
06-14-2008, 11:55 PM
Eric, just out of curiousity how much thicker would you be talking on the 22 cal bullets? I tried some of the 73gr BTs (not at 1000) and was very impressed with them.

Eric Stecker
06-15-2008, 11:37 AM
Rooshooter,

The 7mm 180 gr BT-THICK on in stock now. We decided to make a small run of these in case the tests were successful. It is a gamble but so far the testing of the non-VLD design in other calibers has gone very well.

Previous successful tests followed by weeks (and sometimes months) of delay before we have the tested bullets available has been frustrating to some. This run of 7mm 180 gr BT-THICK was not that large but it should keep those who want them in bullets until a larger run hits the machines (assuming testing goes well).

As far as getting bullets in the land down under, contact Parabellum Imports. They are working hard to bring lots of Bergers into Australia.

Ballistic64,

We believe that the dimensional changes we are making to the THICK J4 jackets are going to be successful in significantly reducing or eliminating bullet failures.

For the sake of others reading about this for the first time, bullet failures typically occur in heavier bullets shot at longer distances. I won't go into all the history behind this situation but if you are interested in learning more do a search of past posts where you can find a wealth of information ("blowup" is likely a good word to use in your search)

Back to your question, we are not sharing the specifics of the changes because I believe this gives us a competitive advantage. Over the years Berger has been branded as the bullet that fails (even though all brands have bullets that fail) so I want to enjoy a period of time where we are branded as the bullets that won't fail (assuming our changes work in all calibers).

I can share with you that our biggest challenge was making thicker jackets that meet our less than .0003 tolerance. This has been accomplished so you can expect the same level of precision from bullets made on THICK J4's as with the regular.

As a side note, testing of bullets made on THICK jackets have shown evidence of increased pressure with the same load used to shoot regular J4 jacketed bullets. I will be very interested to see if the THICK version of the Bergers can squeeze out a bit more velocity at the same charge due to this result. This is speculation at this point so we will see.

Regards,
Eric

tillroot1
06-20-2008, 08:44 PM
I have a 7mm based off the .300 wsm case, I tested these bullets today, my results are a increased muzzle velocity over the vld bullets, with identical loadings the vld bullets run about 3000fps, and with the non vld bullets it was about 3050 to 3060fps. My rifle has a Bartlien 5r 9 twist finished at 30"
As far as grouping, in my gun they did not group differently than the vld bullets. The sweet spot for the seating depth on the vld is .020 jam, on the thick jacket just touching was the most accurate, I started with the .020 jam and went out to a .030 jump by .010 incriments. The bullets are as near perfect in uniformity as possible, great meplats, and show great potential. I only tested to 300 yards today, and ran out of time.

rooshooter
06-21-2008, 04:41 AM
Tillroot1. For the velocity to have increased, it would seem initial presure would have to have increased due to the thicker jacket. Did you find that prsssure had jumped much?
I,m keen to get hold of some when they land in OZ
Eric, the website does not list them yet. Do you have a part number I can give to the importer to order some?

tillroot1
06-21-2008, 07:17 AM
Tillroot1. For the velocity to have increased, it would seem initial presure would have to have increased due to the thicker jacket. Did you find that prsssure had jumped much?
I,m keen to get hold of some when they land in OZ
Eric, the website does not list them yet. Do you have a part number I can give to the importer to order some?

rooshooter, yes the pressure did increase. Ron Tilley

Bolo
06-22-2008, 09:37 PM
Ron, I seated them .010 off in my Br rifle and .050 in my tactical rifle. My initial loads were below what I use for the VLDs. Looking at my records only show a slight increase in velocity over the VLDs. Might be, cause I'm jumping them. It was over 100 degrees at the range today so Thursday tests will be with my original loads for the 180s soft seated and jammed. If I get to my range early enough, I'll test at 600. Will compare come ups between the VLDs and the Sierra 175s against the new BTs.
Both rifles are Kreiger 1 in 9s chambered in 7 SAUM.
By the way, I never chronied those loads I took to Reno. Was surprised that it was 3080fps out of that 30 inch tube.:D

Steve

Lynn
06-22-2008, 09:54 PM
Steve I was in the pits today while Jerry Tierney was testing the new bullets out.From looking at his targets today I would say he has them figured out pretty well.
Maybe Jerry will see this post and do some braggin.
Lynn

tillroot1
06-22-2008, 10:02 PM
Ron, I seated them .010 off in my Br rifle and .050 in my tactical rifle. My initial loads were below what I use for the VLDs. Looking at my records only show a slight increase in velocity over the VLDs. Might be, cause I'm jumping them. It was over 100 degrees at the range today so Thursday tests will be with my original loads for the 180s soft seated and jammed. If I get to my range early enough, I'll test at 600. Will compare come ups between the VLDs and the Sierra 175s against the new BTs.
Both rifles are Kreiger 1 in 9s chambered in 7 SAUM.
By the way, I never chronied those loads I took to Reno. Was surprised that it was 3080fps out of that 30 inch tube.:D

Steve

Steve, good to hear from you! I am going to test in my .280 improved this week. I really don't think my 7wsm will do any better with the thick jackets than the vld bullets. Maybe the improved will show something different. keep um in the "X" ring. Ron

Eric Stecker
06-23-2008, 03:14 AM
Rooshooter,

All of our part numbers are descriptive so the part number for the 7mm 180 gr BT THICK is 284180T-THICK.

We are having some difficulties with our website which should be resolved soon.

Regards,
Eric

Law Dawg
06-23-2008, 10:35 PM
Eric:

Bullets received today. I will test this weekend and post the results.

Thanks for the opportunity,
Jim Hardy

mike in co
06-25-2008, 10:43 PM
i recieved my bullets this week also. mine will ne moly coated with wax. the rifle is a bone stock rem 7mm win mag. i just shot sie 168's and had sub .25 moa.
i'm hopping the stock twist does not become a problem. my oal is 3.36x which puts over .5 in the case. prior data says i should be able to get over 2800 fps with a 24" bbl. the regular 180 vlds have done well at that velocity.
ladder testing to under est 2900 fps.

will be shooting at 200 yds with a 18x scope for the testing......

any comments

thanks
mike in co

mike in co
06-29-2008, 01:59 PM
i did get some ladder testing done with this bullet and my bone stock rem 700 7mm win mag.
i was looking for 2700-2900 fps got 2700 to 2860... only one node showed up. i'll try to shoot some groups in the next couple of days... they will be in the mid/high 2700's.

mike in co

mike in co
07-06-2008, 10:05 AM
i hade been tring to get some good weather to shoot in...it did not happen. i settled on a velocity around 2745, moly coated, std 4831, 24" rem 700 in 7mm win mag.
oal is 3.362 on the lands
shot minus .010, on the lands, and plus .010 into the lands
200 yds, hot 95 plus, gusts to about 10mph l to r.
minus .010 shot .646 vertical/ 1.5 horiz.....remember the wind
on the lands shot .428 vert / 1 horiz
plus .010 in the lands shot 1 vert x 1 horiz.

ignoring the wind(horiz) the bullet shot very well at 2745 just under 1/4 moa.

this was a max load for the temp and probably too slow for long range.
all in all it shot excellent considering the 10 twist of the stock/med bbl on the gun.
i would stick to a lighter/shorter bullet in this rifle.
the remaining bullets are going to propdoc to try.
thanks to berger,eric and michelle

mike in co