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View Full Version : Anybody know where I can have my custom die machined?



VaniB
06-05-2008, 02:10 PM
Any suggestions of where I might send off a new Redding custom 22x47 L FL die to have the neck machined and opened a bit?

I'm using a forster 6x47 FL die to size down unfired 6.5x47 brass to 6mm, and this 22x47 Redding die is then used to size the unfired 6x47 Lapua cases down to .205" diameter. But, the .205 opening is way to small and the .222" expander ball is really contorting the cases badly.

I don't want to send it off to just any handy hobbiest, as the thing cost me $112 and I don't want it messed up.

Thanks in advance.

JerrySharrett
06-05-2008, 02:30 PM
Call Redding, Patrick Ryan can tell you the feasibility of remachining an already hardened die. Sure, it can be done, by several shops, but at what cost? May be cheaper just to get a new die.

Dave Tooley
06-05-2008, 04:59 PM
I've lapped them out before. But the dies are case hardened and if you go to far you break through the skin. Then you have soft steel and you can't keep it from scratching the brass.

Dave

VaniB
06-05-2008, 05:22 PM
I've already got $113. invested in the die and desire to fix it. I've heard others in past threads say that with the right cutting equipment it's not a biggie, but I can't remember where I've seen this discussed.

I already spoke to Jay over there at Redding. It's not very promising that we hit a brick wall as he was trying to tell me that the problem is caused by too much resizing and the resulting thick neck.

Well, whatever the reason, doesn't change the fact that something needs to be done. It needs to be opened! Once I get it opened, I can then turn the final sized .254 neck down to .252" O.D. as we would do with any tight necked chamber on Lapua 22 brass.

Chisolm
06-05-2008, 05:49 PM
I agee with Jay.
If you open up the neck on the die so it properly necks down the brass, it likely will not size it enough ofter the case hase been fired.
For my 7SAUM I use 300SAUM brass. To overcome the problem of oversizing when necking down I made a forming die using the chamber reamer and it works perfectly for sizing down the neck for fireforming. The only time I use this die is when necking down the brass from 300 to 7mm, now everything is right with the world.

What I am saying is that you don't want to get the neck too large on your custom die so that it won't work to resize your fired brass.

James

VaniB
06-05-2008, 07:08 PM
Ok....I agree with you...but only to a degree. 'Cause don't you think .205" sizing is a bit much? There's no mistaking that it takes a gorilla on the RCBS Rockchucker upstroke to pull that expander button through that .205 neck! Then the case gets big time bent out of shape and gives me an inconcentricity reading of 18,000ths on the Sinclair gage!


I dunno Dave.....maybe I oughto talk to Jay at Redding some more. I think his half assed solution is going to be that I should turn the case necks down before sizing. But, I hate to do that because variances with how an when I turn it are going to make uniformity difficult. For example: Should I turn the necks when it's in its 6.5 state, or whether it's in it's 6mm state, and how much should I turn it. If I don't do the exact sequence each time, the neck pull and wall thickness is liable to be a little different with each case.

The ultimate solution would have been for them to have started with the cases like I did, when they engineered the die......the 6.5 Lapua, necked down to 6mm, and then to 22. Then they would have arrived at the same .205 place I'm at and machined this die differently.

Chisolm
06-05-2008, 07:38 PM
Ok....I agree with you...but only to a degree. 'Cause don't you think .205" sizing is a bit much? There's no mistaking that it takes a gorilla on the RCBS Rockchucker upstroke to pull that expander button through that .205 neck! Then the case gets big time bent out of shape and gives me an inconcentricity reading of 18,000ths on the Sinclair gage!



This is exactly what I am talking about.

Before you do anything fireform some cases and run them through the die again and see if the die still oversizes the neck.

If you resize the neck more than a small amount the tension on the neck when going through the die causes it to overshoot the actual neck dimensions of the die, from posts I have read Jay understands this phenomenon.
I think that turning the necks will help but it doesn't solve the problem.

I know this is throwing more money at the problem but were I you I would have a custom FL neck bushing die made.
It has been my experience that the neck bushing dies without the bushing do a good job of necking down a cartridge without oversizing the neck, just run it through a second time with a bushing (that is something I learned while playing with my 6mm Talldog).

James

henrya
06-05-2008, 07:55 PM
Turn the necks while at 6.5 caliber then neck them down. Beyond just making it easier to pull the handle you'll also be turning the donut out for good. Then size to 6mm, next use your bullet seater as an intermediate step and finally use your .22X47 full length die.

If the sized neck diameter is .205" you must have a .17 caliber die. How thick is the neck wall? You need a tubing micrometer to measure this or you can seat a bullet and then measure the diameter with a regular micrometer. What is the real number? Do you have any idea of the neck diameter of your fl die? Do you have a way to measure it? How big is your chamber neck?

Jay, Idaho
06-05-2008, 08:00 PM
I have converted normal F.L. dies to bushing dies, that allows me to choose my neck diameter. It is not a big deal if you have carbide to break through the thin case hardened surface. I've done this with a Hornady Custom die that was made with the wrong neck diameter, rather than deal with having it remade, etc. Jim _________ offers this service and I know folks that have had it done and been happy with his service.
Just one more option to consider.

VaniB
06-05-2008, 11:18 PM
Well geees...by gosh.... shucks....you guys have been so helpful that it makes me bashfull that I turn all red and want to go hide in the closet .....Not:D.......

OK, now I'm going to tell you the "rest of the story" since yo'all seem interested. :)

This is my first project forming cases. I set out listening to some guys on the internet who have said that they use bushing dies to form any caliber you could imagine down in gradual steps. Others, (including guys on these forums) including Redding, and Sinclair told me not to attempt that because bushing dies don't form all the way down to the shoulder which will leave a step, and may not fit the chamber properly. So, on Redding's advice I bought both a 22x47 FL die, and a 22x47 FL bushing die. And, whatever forming I have done so far, there is no donut appearing as of yet.

Some guys will also say to make up dummy cartridges first and send them to Dave before I have a reamer made. This way, the reamer will fit my cartridges. You know....I can pick the case I want, the weight bullet, the seating length, ogive location, the freebore specs, etc... and the reamer will be just like my dies, and fit the chamber like a glove....makes sense to me! SOOOOooo....I don't have a rifle to fire form any brass....cause the rifle is going to be made to the cartridge.:cool:

So far, I've had nothing but trouble with these "custom" dies. :( The $112 Redding 22x47FL die squeezes the new cases down to .205 diameter, and the $125 Redding bushing die squeezes nothing! It evidently has a larger body then the FL die. So when I put the contorted case in the FL bushing die, the case stays untouched and remains bent. But, when I remove the expander button from the FL die and run the contorted case back in it again, it straightens the case beautifully. So, Jay told me to send the both dies and 3 sample cases back to him. I think while he will try to get the FL bushing die cavity to match the FL die cavity so they both squeeze the case body the same way....... I'll bet he leaves the FL die still squeezing to a .205" neck.


If that FL die comes back the same way squeezing to .205, I wanted to know which shop to send it off to. Jay/Idaho, I've been communicating with Jim about it. Says he can do it but wants to know what size I request.

Henrya, the OD is .254 which equals .15 walls. I have a k&M neck turner, and intend to have a reamer made for a .252 OD neck.