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harrydeneen
03-13-2008, 12:46 PM
The New Lapua My Conclusions Are As Follows.. It Shoots No Better Than A Good Lot Of Yellow Box Lapua Or Black Box Eley !! I Could Be Wrong And Time Will Tell Down The Road.. If It Does Shoot Better Than All The Rest Then That Will Only Hurt The Game Of Br Rimfire To The Brink Of Extinction... But I Feel While It Is Good Ammo,, I Feel Confident With My Conclusion On Ammo Testing... While The Price Of Everything Is Out Of Sight, This Price Is A Joke... Harry..:):):)

steve
03-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the post.
Steve

Doug
03-13-2008, 01:11 PM
Harry,
Thanks for telling it like it is!!;)
Sometimes I get so frustruated on this formun when I read a post about how good this thing or that thing is then when I do a little research I find that a lot of these posts are by friends of someone trying to sell something!:(

Keith23
03-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Can you give us an idea of how extensive your testing was? How many rounds you fired? Group sizes, etc?

I hope you are right about this stuff, but it would seem a dumb move on Lapua's part to try to charge this much for a product no better than what was already available. You did see they are pricing this stuff at over $20.00 a box?

I'm all for going back to everyone shooting club provided ammo at matches. That makes it a shooting contest and even up the odds. Now it is a search for the right ammo and lot number.

Pepper1079
03-13-2008, 03:04 PM
Thanks Harry,
I can always trust you. I am sure that you gave it a good testing or you would haave not said anything.
Jim

cpeters
03-13-2008, 03:11 PM
We all value what you say and it is normally short, and to the point. No riddles to have to try and decipher.

No matter what...you still have to be able to read the flags, know where to point and when to pull the trigger.

Charlie

1813benny
03-13-2008, 03:28 PM
The New Lapua My Conclusions Are As Follows.. It Shoots No Better Than A Good Lot Of Yellow Box Lapua Or Black Box Eley !! I Could Be Wrong And Time Will Tell Down The Road.. If It Does Shoot Better Than All The Rest Then That Will Only Hurt The Game Of Br Rimfire To The Brink Of Extinction... But I Feel While It Is Good Ammo,, I Feel Confident With My Conclusion On Ammo Testing... While The Price Of Everything Is Out Of Sight, This Price Is A Joke... Harry..:):):)

Harry makes several very good points about the current situation regarding the new Lapua. I would like to add my perspective.

While it is a no brainer that each lot of ammunition will shoot differently in each rifle, remember that Lapua promised a 25-50% improvement in accuracy? If that was the case, even a lousy lot of Lapua Xact should have been on par with Eley Black or Tennex.

Yes, there are shooters in all smallbore disciplines that are able to afford this ammunition with the notion that they are happy to win at all cost.

But what if the ULITMATE cost is that smallbore is priced out of existence?

I'm talking about benchrest, prone, 3-position, 4-position, silhouette...every discipline that consumes a large segment of all .22 caliber match ammunition sold by the major manufacturers.

If all shooters are willing to pay for ammunition at this price - and from inital reviews with no performance improvement - why wouldn't Eley just say "BOHICA" and up the price for their match ammunition to equal that of Lapua? Market pricing folks...it happens more than you think.

What is more scary is that, if it is true, some vendors have already "sold out" of the new Lapua. (Personally, I find this hard to believe and think this is more of a marketing ploy that they are "sold out" so quickly to further boost the notion that shooters are DUMB enough to pay that much for ammunition...no matter how good it performs.)

Alas..I digress.... The initial rush to even try 50 rounds of this ammunition at about $26/box is a sad state of affairs.

Maybe I am wrong, but every true competitive shooter should really take a step back and ask if buying this ammunition and supporting this ammo-lust mentality is really worth the death of the sport that they love.

I personally won't even give Lapua or any of their vendors who attempt to anally rape shooters any consideration for this ammunition whatsoever. Let this stuff rot on the shelves. While I am not happy about the current price of Eley or RWS, Lapua has gone over the line.

REAL shooters don't need ammunition that costs $26/box to win rifle matches.

Ken Benyo
2007 National Civilian Prone Champion

derek casey
03-13-2008, 03:33 PM
at the price they are asking i had made up my mind that i wasn't buying any of it. didn't matter if it loaded itself and another round pulled the trigger for me!!! i'm glad somebody did a test and put up a post about it!! thank you vey much. i'll just stay with the eley rounds.

Fred K
03-13-2008, 04:10 PM
Thanks Harry for the input.
Fred K

harrydeneen
03-13-2008, 04:27 PM
Years Back When I Was Selling Alot Of Lapua And I Recieved A Big Shipment At That Time... So As I Filled Out Some Orders That I Had And The Feedback Was That The Ammo Was No Good... So I Went And Tested Some Myself And As Some Of You Can Remember I Posted That This New Ammo Did Not Shoot... Even Though I Had A Big Pile Of It And I Got In Touch With My Distrubutor And Told Them That The Ammo Must Of Got Over Heated.. Well Some Other Sellers Did Not Like Me Saying This ,and I Told Lapua After Admitting They Changed The Primer Compound Without Telling Us, That I Was Sending The Junk Back.. When They Told Me That It Was Good And I Was The Only One Complaning I Sent It Even Quicker... I Can Tell You I Was Not Very High On Their List... Let The Shooters Decide What Is Good ... Harry..:):):)

_Shorty
03-13-2008, 05:16 PM
One wonders if this sour experience was on your mind while testing the new stuff.

Fred K
03-13-2008, 05:29 PM
Shorty
Harry is not that kind of person !!!!!!
Fred K

glynn angle
03-13-2008, 05:44 PM
If Harry says the New Lapau is just average good, then I believe that to be true. Harry isn' t going to build it up or tear it down without a fair test. Harry probably has more experience testing ammo than the rest of us put together. No doubt some of it will shoot great in some rifles, but $25 a box...it better float on water. Good shooting to all, Glynn

brad541thb
03-13-2008, 05:48 PM
Shorty,

Harry has forgotten more about shooting in the last 15yrs than you will know in a lifetime. How many world records have you shot or better yet how many matches have you won on a national level? Harry speaks, you can either listen or keep floating in the twilight zone.

B. Harvey
03-13-2008, 06:12 PM
If it's just average and not the 'key' to 25X's, then Lapua is shooting themselves in the foot with the insane price, unless, of course, this new ammo is consistent from day to day, unlike most ammo.

bill s
03-13-2008, 06:16 PM
If it shot as good as Black box Eley----- then it IS 50% better than it was!!!!:D:D:D THANKS Harry....bill

pacecil
03-13-2008, 06:24 PM
Seems everybody has forgotten. YOU HAVE TO ADJUST YOUR TUNER TO SHOOT THIS AMMO!!!!

tim
03-13-2008, 07:16 PM
One wonders if this sour experience was on your mind while testing the new stuff.
Every once in a while, the term SHUT UP comes to mind. This seems to be one of those times.

tim
03-13-2008, 07:19 PM
Hey Harry, how many lots did you try, and thanks for the heads up.

tim
03-13-2008, 07:21 PM
Seems everybody has forgotten. YOU HAVE TO ADJUST YOUR TUNER TO SHOOT THIS AMMO!!!!

Cecil, you put salt and pepper on that foot before you cram it in your mouth or you just get used to the taste by now?:confused:

ThaiBoxer
03-13-2008, 07:56 PM
Cecil, you put salt and pepper on that foot before you cram it in your mouth or you just get used to the taste by now?:confused:Awww, now. It made me laugh. Seems like a lot of witchcraft or wishful thinking in this game.

Thanks for posting this Harry. I'm not against Lapua, but I am another who hopes that $25/box ammo does not become necessary. $10 black box has me considering alternative shooting sports, as it is.

Phil Deese
03-13-2008, 09:28 PM
If it takes $26.00 a box ammo to be competitive I hope all of the 3 shooters remaining 2 years from now will be happy!!!!!!!

Renegade
03-13-2008, 09:29 PM
Harry,
Thanks for the input. It means more coming from you than from just about anyone in the shooting sports, and reinforces my reasons for choosing this shooting sport above all others. I had already decided that if it took $26 ammo to have a chance to win in this game, I was either going to quit, or buy a pellet gun.
Todd Banks

Phil Deese
03-13-2008, 09:39 PM
Thanks Harry for your input, you like the rest of us have heard these stories for quite a few years now on how great the next shipment will be.............here we go again at three times the price!!! I think it's a vast left wing conspricy to shutdown 22 shooting.

Fiddler
03-13-2008, 10:05 PM
I have to agree with you on this one and I promise I won't tell anyone about the 2 cases you have stashed in your Garage. See ya on the line soon!:eek::D:p

Al Hadfield
03-14-2008, 07:09 AM
Hi Harry,

Thanks for telling it like it is. You will save some of us a lot of time and expense. I had already decided not to buy any, no matter how good it was, at that ridiculous price anyway.

I guess it will be air gun next year!

Thanks again, Al

harrydeneen
03-14-2008, 11:20 AM
Always Shoot It Against Other Good Lots To Compare It.. This Is The Only Way You Can Tell How Good It Is Because You Shold Have A Good Idea On How Your Good Ammo Shoots... Shorty, Keith.. Six Lots Were Tested Against Good Eley, Master And Old Gold Box.. I Said It Was Pretty Good But In My Case It Did Not Shoot As Good As Some Other Lots.. I Have Nothing Against Lapua Shorty! It Has Got Me Alot Of Hof Points And I Will Proably Shoot In In My Next Big Match...we Need Two Companies Competing Against Each Other So The Prices Will Come Down Some... If There Is A Ammo That Is Better All The Rest At A Big Price Then Only A Few Hardnoised Shooters Will Shoot It And All Others Will Have To Settle For Less...thus Hurting The Sport.... When Some Of You Get To Try More Let Me Know How It Stacks Up Against Your Other Ammo.... Thanks.. Harry.. :):):)

Dave Shattuck
03-14-2008, 12:38 PM
Thanks Harry,

As most of us have said; your word on any subject related to rimfire means a great deal to all of us.

For me, the $15.45/box for Eley was alarming enough. But $26.00/box? I don't think so!

As Al and Todd said earlier, pellet guns are sure looking better and better with every passing day, especially with there .02/shot ammunition. The difference between them and myself, I already have one on order.

I have enough rimfire ammuntion to get me through the next couple of years, maybe longer if I don't practice as much. But, when that is gone, unless I have found more at a reasonable price, I'll probably become exclusively an airgun benchrester. I love this sport and love the people involved in it, but simply can't afford the price.

Dave Shattuck

garrisone
03-14-2008, 01:05 PM
NOW-:::::///? You Guys are makeing sence. Harry -Thanks for your testing. In my opinion if something is not done soon the sport as many of us know it will be gone. If the club furnished the same ammo then the field would be on level ground and fair to everyone. You can shoot any rifle you want but the ammo is the same for everybody.$25.00s a box for ammo is just crazy-(for those of us who can't afford it) but then there are some who can afford this ammo at any price and to me that is an unfair advantage. Harry I am glad there are still some who will try to get to the truth.garrisone

chris/a
03-14-2008, 10:10 PM
GOOD DAY BOYS
I am from OZ That $26 a box will cost us $30 hear
IT is kill this sport for sure
IT IS A GAME FOR THE RICH ONE NOW
A lot of indoor air gun rang s poping up hear now Some are BR
THANKS CHRIS :(

Don Stith
03-18-2008, 07:12 AM
Harry
I just want to know how you found 6 different lots of the X-act. From what I was told, there have not been that many lots brought into the country. There have been several lots of the lower grade from the same machine, but they use the old lube. from my limited testing the new lube makes a big difference.. Please clarify what you tested.
Thanks
Don

_Shorty
03-18-2008, 07:37 AM
That's not what I meant. My point was like this: people often say if you're trying to test if something actually makes a difference, such as rim thickness or overall round weight, you should do a double-blind test. Doing so would eliminate any concious or subconcious bias, as you wouldn't know what you're shooting. And the only reason I said it was because, after stating that he found it to not be shooting what its price tag said it should be, he mentioned his poor experience with a big batch of their ammo in the past. If he hadn't mentioned that, the idea of possibly being subconciously influenced by that wouldn't have even popped into my head.

You guys are quicker to jump all over a guy without actually thinking about what they've said and why they may have said it than any other forum I've seen.
Shorty
Harry is not that kind of person !!!!!!
Fred K

Fred J
03-18-2008, 08:31 AM
Don:
I've seen the same thing. Every box of the new X-Act, had the same lot number. I guess Harry has a special supplier.

cpeters
03-18-2008, 10:07 AM
Things may be different by now but my understanding was Charlie Scott only had 1 case of this stuff so if you got it from him or what he was letting people test at the last indoor shoot, it probably would have been the same lot number.

Of course the key here I thought was it is also supposed to be exactly the same from lot number to lot number, so SUPOSSEDLY, no more hunting for ammo once you determine that it will work in your rifle.

HMMM, I wonder what percentage of ammo sales were just selling test lots to all of us poor mortals in search of the magic bullet?

I would hate to imagine how many partial boxes and full boxes of ammo I have that just didn't work for me.

HMMMMM, So now if you want to pay the price for this stuff......is the business going to shift to the Gunsmiths and barrel makers with customers wanting the best combination that will shoot this new magical super duper round?

Are we going to have to pull some Gunsmiths out of retirement to keep up with all of the work?

Are barrel prices going to go through the roof, to keep up with demand?

Is the stainless steel market going to keep up with all of the demand?

Are people going to suffer because stainless is being diverted from surgical instruments and the food services industry to build all of these barrels?

OK., back to my original thought.

HMMMM, maybe there are going to be a ton of killer "pulled" barrels for sale that thier only fault in life was that they wouldn't shoot this new magical super duper killer high falutent Lapua round and will only shoot the old mortal eley?

Lots of things make me go HMMMMM anymore.

So what is that latest on delivery? If someone is sitting on 3 or 4 boxes of this new magical super duper killer high falutent Lapua round do we really think someone isn't going to try it in competetion?

Is Macky or someone going to tell you/us when there is enough avaliable and give the green light to legally use it in competition?

HMMMMM

Charlie

steve
03-18-2008, 11:22 AM
I am sticking with my black box Eley. At least till I get my clock cleaned at every match I go to. There is more to Benchrest Shooting than ammo.

Bobby T.
03-18-2008, 12:58 PM
6 different lots to 1 suppose lot. Makes me wonder now. Don and Fred bring up a good point. Maybe it's better than what we were told.

Booby

harrydeneen
03-18-2008, 03:07 PM
I Tested Some Last Fall And Again This Year And While It Has Been Out For A While And Others Have Tested Some Last Year, It Is Still Not Legal For Competition... I Dont Know If Last Years Lube Is Diffrent Or Not, And When Its Avaliable To All Shooters I Hope You Have Good Luck With It... Thats All I Have To Say On This Matter... Harry..:):):)