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Brent13
03-06-2008, 05:43 PM
Hello All,

I am offering up a shotgun for trade on another forum. One offer that is of interest to me is a Winchester Model 70 Coyote, but in the perhaps unfortunate chambering of 223 WSSM. Love this model, but don't have any experience with the WSSM's. I have searched here and read a bunch of past posts, and nearly all that was said was not good. A few had a good experience, but not many. The thing that still has me guessing is that all posts were two to three years old. There seems to be no new discussion about the WSSM and in particular the 223. The rifle I am thinking about trading for is one of the "Winchester replacements" during the recall around 2005-2006. It is said to shoot well, 1" groups at 100. Not all bad for a factory rifle and maybe, just maybe it can do better. So, any recent news out there that I am missing? Should I run away from this deal? I am always up for someithing different, and a WSSM would peak my interest, but I also don't want to get stuck with a piece of junk. Should the 223 WSSM be avoided at all cost?

Thanks,
Brent

chino69
03-06-2008, 06:42 PM
Brent,
Not to rain on your parade but I haven't heard enough good about the WSM's to even be interested. There are too many time tested proven cartridges out there to mess around with the WSM's.
Chino69

osofaraway
03-06-2008, 07:22 PM
I would run as fast as I can from the coyote. I bought a brand new one about 2 years ago and couldn't mount a scope on it that would adjust to zero becasue the base holes were drilled wrong, sent it back to the factory and they sent me a new one and it had the same problem.

Talon1959
03-06-2008, 11:51 PM
I have two Coyotes. One stainless in 7MM WSM, and a brand new blued .25 WSSM. The 7MM is my best out of the box factory HUNTING gun I own. My .25 WSSM is a 1" MOA gun with 115 grain BSTs off the bags.

Reed's Ammunition and Research out of Oklahoma makes 4 or 5 loads in the 223 WWSM ranging from $17-25 a box.

CDNN was selling the 223 WSSM stainless Coyotes for $450 a while back. I like the WSSMs. I sold a cheapo Super Shadow in 243 WSSM I wish I could get back.

Louis Boyd
03-07-2008, 01:55 AM
I am always up for someithing different, and a WSSM would peak my interest, but I also don't want to get stuck with a piece of junk. Should the 223 WSSM be avoided at all cost? Thanks,
Brent

Cartridge case_capacity Pressure
220 Swift 47 gn 62336 psi
223 WSSM 53.7 gn 65000 psi

If you collect factory rifles in severely overbore factory chamberings as a hobby then I'd say it's a "must have" to display along with your 264 WIn Mag , 7mm Rem Ultra, and 30-378 Weatherby.

papapaul
03-07-2008, 09:15 AM
Last shotgun news had an ad for Win coyores in .223 wssm for cheap. Like they were dumping them. Under $400. It was CDN or J&G, I don't remember.

caroby
03-07-2008, 10:42 AM
Bad news....................... Run, run from the 22WSSM!!!!
The 243WSSM is only marginal........ Now the 25WSSM is not overbore and is a fine cartridge.

The 22WSSM is severly overbore and a true turd!!!!:(
Know on guy that "tried" to make the 22WSSM chambering work.
Took a 1-8 twist PacNor chambered it for .250nk 22WSSM. Turned ALOT of that super thick neck down. Then with darn near every load tried (Gun was RIGHT, a known SHOOTER!). The darn thing would only do 3/4-1".........Burned wwwwwwwwwway too much powder for 3500fps with a 69gr Sierra MK, my 22-250Ack with the same powder at about same amount will do 3690fps and BUG HOLES!
Any way, the guy thought it was a bad barrel.... I said no way..! Rechambered that PacNor with my 22-250Ack reamer and now it SHOOTS!

There... Done the right way with top quality components.... Very very poor engineered cartridge...Over hyped from Winchester!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:


The WSM cartriges are really solid!

Get a standard 22-250 Coyote and be much more HAPPY.

cale

tylerw02
03-07-2008, 11:02 AM
My friend had a 223 WSSM in a blued 70 Coyote. Severe overbore! It was loud, inaccurate, and had lots of recoil for what it was. Best we got it to shoot was around .8" at 100. On prairie dog hunts, my 700 VLS in .204 out shoot him in both accuracy and range. The VLS shoots .3s consistently. I had a 75% hit percentage out to about 550 yards, made more shots, used less powder, and used cheaper bullets. Meanwhile, his barrel is too hot to shoot ever three or four rounds letting it cool and experiencing fatigue from recoil at the end of the day.

The same guy traded his .223 WSSM for a .25 WSSM and its not honestly bad at all! The .25 WSSM is quieter, recoils less (and its a Coyote Lite model), and heats up more slowly.

hopefullbencher
03-08-2008, 09:38 PM
I worked with a friends .223wssm and to say the least, it is crap!!! 150 bullets and about a half a pound (+ or -) and it shoots 1" at best. Factory ammo shoots 4 -5". All this at 100 yards off a rest and bag. This is my first and now will be the only foray into the wssms. I too was really pumped about it, I mean it sorta made sense. Short fat case, huge capacity....waste of time. I think it was a good idea but piss poor follow-through.
Mike

Mark IV
03-09-2008, 08:33 AM
My 223 WSSM Cooper shoots 3/8 inch 5 shot 100 yard groups repeatedly with both factory 55 grain bullets and reloads. In fact, its the only rifle that I have - out of about 30 - that will shoot factory loads that well.

Don't know why the other responders are having such problems with their 223 WSSM rifles. :D

Redrock
03-09-2008, 09:11 AM
Working on a 223wssm stealth best i can get is .8 not bad for a pickup gun...as far as the coyote is this a coyote or a coyote lite...have also worked on a coyote lite in 22-250 and it has shot the best group out of any factory gun I've worked with in the last 20years <.2 5rd at 100yds consistently but from reading this thread it seems like luck of the draw. Oh and the bullet he uses in the 22-250 is a calhoon 55gr with RE15 cci br2 knocks the Sh$% out of coyotes.

kansasvet
03-09-2008, 02:41 PM
I worked with a .223 WSSM so inaccurate, 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yds., that it cured me of any desire to own any WSSM or RSM.
To further reinforce my lack of interest in WSSM cartridges an article in the April 2007 issue of Precision Shooting did the trick. The name of the article is A Matter of Design by J.C. Munnel

Brent13
03-11-2008, 04:47 PM
Ok, this thing, the 223 WSSM, appears to have nothing going on that is positive. Let's say I go ahead and get this rifle, a Winchester Coyote in 223 WSSM. What options would I have as to a re-barrel job? I do like the M70 action and like the wood on this rifle. If I trash the barrel and start over what are my options? What bolt size does the 223 WSM use? Could I go with a 22 BR or 6 BR by chance? Thanks for all the input, but I can get a pretty decent deal on a trade that I have in the works and may use this rifle as a donor.

Thanks,
Brent

tylerw02
03-11-2008, 04:50 PM
Ok, this thing, the 223 WSSM, appears to have nothing going on that is positive. Let's say I go ahead and get this rifle, a Winchester Coyote in 223 WSSM. What options would I have as to a re-barrel job? I do like the M70 action and like the wood on this rifle. If I trash the barrel and start over what are my options? What bolt size does the 223 WSM use? Could I go with a 22 BR or 6 BR by chance? Thanks for all the input, but I can get a pretty decent deal on a trade that I have in the works and may use this rifle as a donor.

Thanks,
Brent


You're going to be limited to the WSSM and WSM family and wild-cats. Its a magnum bolt-head with a short action. I think maybe you can use the SAUM cartridges, but I'd have to check the diagrams.

Brent13
03-11-2008, 04:55 PM
Bummer, glad I asked then. There is nothing that can be done to the bolt face to accept say .223 or the like? I thought I had heard that the bolt face could be bushed or something along those lines. I am just throwing what I thought I heard out there. I am no Gunsmith, obviously.

tylerw02
03-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Bummer, glad I asked then. There is nothing that can be done to the bolt face to accept say .223 or the like? I thought I had heard that the bolt face could be bushed or something along those lines. I am just throwing what I thought I heard out there. I am no Gunsmith, obviously.

I think you could get a bushing and a different extractor...but at this point (and added expense), you'd have to ask yourself "why?" You could build the exact gun you want probably cheaper.

caroby
03-12-2008, 11:02 AM
Bummer, glad I asked then. There is nothing that can be done to the bolt face to accept say .223 or the like? I thought I had heard that the bolt face could be bushed or something along those lines. I am just throwing what I thought I heard out there. I am no Gunsmith, obviously.


Brent, your gonna have to talk to a smith about making a Long extractor blade on that push feed Win 70 bolt... It'll never feed from the mag.
Only hope really is the .308 bolt face cartridges (308, 22-250, BR) ...
.223.... Pretty tough challange there...

Now, as for WSM Mag bolt face. The 25WSSM is fine, actually it's Damn fine.
Though it's not a 22:o

You must REALLY like this rifle..... Get a Savage .223 and be HAPPY...........<!

good luck,
cale

DonR
03-13-2008, 07:42 PM
I have a Stainless Coyote in 25wssm & I love it. Try this site

http://www.wssmzone.com/main/default.aspx

Don

Craiger5658
05-20-2008, 10:32 AM
Brent,
Here's my 2 cents worth: A buddy of mine has a Cooper in 223 WSSM. He loves the gun and it's accuracy, but since we shoot digger squirrels primarily, the gun is too light and jumps too much to see your impacts. He wants to put a Holland brake on it, but Cooper won't honor their replacement barrel is he does. So now he's stuck with dies, brass, gun and an unpleasant look on his face. It might be the hottest thing smoking out there in .22 caliber, but I agree with the previous comment of run away!

nwpaconcours
06-28-2008, 06:12 PM
fwiw I have a light barreled A-Bolt that with the right loads can do consistent .4" three shot groups (three-v-five out of mercy for the hot barrel). I wanted a light walkaround varminter and had a heavy swift and .222 in the closet but wanted to do something different.

The wssm will never be my favorite cartridge but I found Federal brass doesn't split the shoulder like Winchester (which often splits the first load in the Browning).

For an east coast yote and occasional chuck gun the wssm is fine if you're patient, but not the best choice if you're burning through much ammo.

If I was doing it again I'd probably go the 22-250 route (just to put different dies in the drawer). I don't know I'd run away from the wssm....but it does have "issues".

P Kunda
06-28-2008, 08:16 PM
Hello All,

WSSM would peak my interest, but I also don't want to get stuck with a piece of junk. Should the 223 WSSM be avoided at all cost?

Thanks,
Brent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Peter

6.5fan
06-30-2008, 09:01 PM
I would rechamber it in a 243wssm or a 25wssm with a good barrel.I have a 243wssm and a6.5/25wssm 1k rifles they both shoot great.:D:D

Worker
06-30-2008, 11:18 PM
I have a 22-250AI chambered in 26" 5R cut rifled BBL I get 3900+ with 55gr bullets

davejones
07-01-2008, 03:23 AM
"So, any recent news out there that I am missing? "

not that I am aware of.

"Should I run away from this deal? "

fast and far.

"I am always up for someithing different, and a WSSM would peak my interest, but I also don't want to get stuck with a piece of junk. Should the 223 WSSM be avoided at all cost?"

in my opinion, yes.

k22hornet
07-02-2008, 04:37 PM
My son used to own a Win Super Shadow in 223wssm, and it was a poor shooter. I'm being kind here. 10" "groups" were common. He ended up trading it for a Browning in 223wssm. This gun shoots great. +3700fps with 60gr Vmax, 4050fps with 50gr Btips (starting loads). Hornaday says they got 4,600fps with a 40gr Vmax!

Just as a Porsche or Ferrari is not a daily driver, the 223wssm is not a prairie dog cartridge. It does make one hell of a coyote thumper, though.