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View Full Version : 108 6mm Bergers Versus 105 6mm Bergers



Andrew B
02-16-2008, 10:33 PM
I am very pleased to report that I have a 6x47 Lapua built on a Predator action with a Shilen 1 in 8 twist that I could not get to shoot the 105 Berger VLD's no matter what I tried. Today I tried the new 108 Bergers loaded to the lands with IMR 4350 and Reloader 19 and both loads gave me sub inch groups at 300 yards. Also tried H4831Sc - that sucked.

Will test at longer distances next week, but am pleased that these worked well. I had also tried the Sierra 107's, but met with poor results with those as well.

I am posting since I believe that rifles that will not shoot VLD's well is the exact reason Bergers makes the 108's. Definately worked out for me.

Pushing them about 3100 fps.

Worth a shot (pun intended) if you are having VLD issues as I was.

Thanks Berger - next stop was a new barrel.

G.seekins
02-17-2008, 03:16 AM
Whats the BC on the 108's and how long of a barrel are you shooting?

JerrySharrett
02-17-2008, 08:53 AM
Andrew, you question the VLD nose...I do too. It seems the VLD, while having a higher BC is harder to get to shoot and keep shooting.

Eric Stecker put out a sheet on Berger bullet specs. On it he shows a 105 grain bullet with a 15 ogive nose (60-243105V) and a 105 with a 9 ogive nose (60-243105T). Have you compared these against each other?

MARKS
02-17-2008, 12:09 PM
Andrew,

In my gun, the newest 105's need to be in the lands 0.025" to 0.030" to shot. Alot of the guys are going to the 108's off the lands, and shooting as well as the 105. I had only one box of the 108's to try, and they shot very good in the gun I tried. I will get some more to try in my 500 yd gun soon.

Mark Schronce

Lynn
02-17-2008, 12:23 PM
None of my guns have ever shot the true VLD bullets as good as the BT Match bullets at shortrange.I read the reports of guys setting all these records with them and could never get them quite right.They were always a touch bigger at 100 yards.
After watching Gary Childs shoot a 3 inch group at 1,000 yards I bought another 1,000 VLD'S to test out.
I am probaly just full of hot air but they don't seem to open up as much as the distance is increased.By that I mean a group of 0.230 at 100 yards might be 2.00 inches at 600 yards while a non VLD group of 0.180 at 100 yards might be 2.250 at 600 yards.
My guns seem to really like the 105 BT Match bullets that Berger sells and you might give them a try as well.
Lynn

RayfromTX
02-17-2008, 12:29 PM
uh oh

JerrySharrett
02-17-2008, 02:12 PM
Andrew,

In my gun, the newest 105's need to be in the lands 0.025" to 0.030" to shot. Alot of the guys are going to the 108's off the lands, and shooting as well as the 105. I had only one box of the 108's to try, and they shot very good in the gun I tried. I will get some more to try in my 500 yd gun soon.

Mark Schronce
Mark or Lynn, have you guys tried the 105T against the 105V? In my little 6-40 PPC a 105 is about too much.

wnroscoe
02-17-2008, 02:26 PM
Andrew,

In my gun, the newest 105's need to be in the lands 0.025" to 0.030" to shot.

In my 6XC, the new 105 VLD's have to be in .015" to shoot. Have'nt tried them any deeper in.

wnroscoe
02-17-2008, 02:34 PM
Here's the 105 Berger with tangent ogive on left and 105 VLD on right

http://i27.tinypic.com/20gxssj.jpg

Lynn
02-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Jerry I mainly shoot the Berger 105T in my lightgun as it outshoots the 105V in my testing.
If you have the chance Clay Spencer makes a 103 that also shoots very well.
Lynn

JerrySharrett
02-17-2008, 04:17 PM
Jerry I mainly shoot the Berger 105T in my lightgun as it outshoots the 105V in my testing.
If you have the chance Clay Spencer makes a 103 that also shoots very well.
Lynn

I've been shooting the 88FB's and 90BT's. I have won with the 90BT's and a 4th with the 88's. I have some 100 Clinch Rivers I need to try. I've still got a few boxes of 95 and 105 LTB's but they are a little slow. I did do a second in score with the 95 LTB's though.

Andrew B
02-19-2008, 02:29 PM
G Seekins - The barrel is a 28 inch Shilen

Lynn - I have another 6X47 Lapua that shoots the 105 VLD's very well. I will also look at the 105 BT's - did not realize that Berger made a VLD and a BT in 105. Thanks

Marks - I tried the VLD's in and out of the lands at different lengths with a number of different powders before I went to the 108. I just could not get the VLD's to work well in this particular barrel. I was about to pitch the barrel.

tiny68
02-19-2008, 03:25 PM
I am a seating in lands virgin, but I have got some questions for you that do it. Major one is do you really think you are getting the bullet to engrave and seat in deeper or is it just sliding back in the neck? Maybe be an old question, but I have only recently started playing with the VLDs. I certainly see them shoot better at the lands.

Using a new barrel chambered in a 6mm AI, I tried to test this out. I measured to the lands, then made up three test blanks with bullets seated at +0.005, +0.015, and +0.030". All had a mild resistance closing the bolt, but the deepest two were much harder. When I pull all three blanks back out and measured the COAL to the ogive, all were within +/- 0.002 of the distance to the lands. Granted, I use a light neck tension and I don't turn necks.

What are you thoughts and how do you get a bullet to actually engrave in the barrel without it sliding back in the neck?

thanks, tiny

J. Pendergraft
02-19-2008, 09:55 PM
[I]
What are you thoughts and how do you get a bullet to actually engrave in the barrel without it sliding back in the neck?

thanks, tiny

No majic here Tiny. If you want to have firm engraving by the lands on the bullet you have to have enough neck tension to keep the bullet from moving in the neck. I find it's easy just to use calipers and measure OAL of the loaded round to determine if the chambering of the round is pushing the bullet further in the case. Your method of measuring from the ogive should work as well.

eggman
02-19-2008, 10:56 PM
We finally had some decent weather to do some long range (562 yds.)load testing of all the loads that shot decent at 100 yds in my son's 6 BR Saturday. We tested Berger 105 VLD (old lot), Berger 105 BT and the new Berger 108 BT. The smallest 5 shot groups were the 108 Bergers jumped .010" off the lands.This barrel has allways shot SMK's or BT's better than VLD's at long range but at 100 yards there isn't much difference. With the same charge of Varget we noticed harder bolt lift with the 108 Berger than the 107 SMk's or 105 BT's. . I believe this must be due to more bearing surface of the bullet. Anyway the 108 Berger is what he is going to be shooting at 600 yds. this season.

Rodney

JerrySharrett
02-20-2008, 07:41 AM
Rodney, I'm glad it was decent in your end of Rich Valley Saturday. It was crappy on my end, especially on Big Walkers Mountain where my bench is.

WhelenMan
02-20-2008, 05:37 PM
Tiny, I'm new to bench shooting and was wondering along the same lines as you. If one doesn't have enough neck tension to assure that the bullets will not slip in the case does one not wind up with varying case capacity each time. I see quite a bit of variation in the ogive length from bullet to bullet and that variance would be carried along to the COL if the bullet is slipping in the neck. It could amount to several thousandths variation of seating depth before firing from bullet to bullet. Then with that variance in case capacity would one not see a variance in ES and then vertical on the target? Like I said I'm new. Maybe someone with more experience can enlighten us?

I would think to get a proper measurement of what's happening you would need to remove the extractor from the bolt and after seating the cartridge drive the cartridge out of the chamber with a rod through the muzzle to prevent the bullet being dragged out of it's true position. Anyone tried this? It would be a pain with a Remington 700 action like I'm using.