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View Full Version : 22ppc short powder ? Norma



Kirk Ethridge
02-15-2008, 06:49 PM
i've been working with a 22-100, and not having much luck to be honest.

Powder valley now has Norma powder. what powder would we use in the ppc's? i know one of em used to be used by some in the ppc's.

I've been shooting 4198, 133, and did shoot a really small one with the 4198, but not consistant yet.

I've tested with the bullet just touching lands to few thou jam. to just off. I guess a good jump will be in order next.

Your experiences appreciated?

Kirk

Tony Titheridge
02-15-2008, 08:01 PM
The Norma powder of choice for a 6PPC was Norma 201, somewhere about 30.2gr with a 66gr bullet worked well.

Tony

Dave B
02-15-2008, 11:05 PM
I think your on the right track with 4198. V133 also shoots very well. all the 201 you can get in the case will shoot small. Pay close attention to your brass. While fitted necks work well in a 6 ppc, a 22 need a bit more release
in the necks. Jumping your bullets a few thousands while getting a little more clearence between the brass and neck might just suprise you.

caroby
02-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Jumping your bullets a few thousands while getting a little more clearence between the brass and neck might just suprise you. Dave B

Yes, I agree with Dave. I too have seen those suprising results! Especially with 4198 and a typical 1.5deg 30 leade throat.

cale

Dick Wright
02-17-2008, 07:56 PM
Try some 322. It works well for guys in this area in cool and cold weather. Start around 24-1/2 grains and work up to 26 gr. So far it's the best cool/cold weather powder we've found for either a 6 or .22 PPC.

Octopus
02-18-2008, 03:18 PM
I just got my first 22. A 22 Waldog.

Filled the case with N-133 and a 52 Berger.

It shoots very tight with less recoil than I had expected. (10.4#)

These little 22s are a lot of fun.

nickthe
02-18-2008, 03:47 PM
i am shooting 220/beggs and having the same trouble I think its in the brass and not having good dies makes it impossible (using wish dies) thats when you wish you had dies (still waiting on hornady)

Dick Wright
02-18-2008, 04:40 PM
How many times have you shot each case? If you are going by the first or second firing, you will find things improve a lot after they have been fire formed three times.

The first time you shot a .22 Short case, the groups will normally be terrible. Generally they are all cockeyed from having been formed and having the neck expanded. I keep an old worn-out barrel just for the first fire forming.

Plugger
02-19-2008, 07:18 PM
It looks like to me that the 200 would be better. I works better for me in a 30BR.

Kirk Ethridge
02-26-2008, 12:40 AM
Dick, i've got a dozen rounds on the cases by now, i've tried several 133 lots. and also my couple pounds of scottish 322. to no avail.

I've shot one good group. a true zero with the 4198. other than that 1 group, i've shot nothing smaller than a nickel. the brass extracts fine

i've shot at least 200 rounds now. with various powder i only have 1 bullet though (getner) (plus non custom bullets yet to try)

i've got a couple more 22 barrels to chamber. guess i'll try the beggs now. I really wish i could get one to shoot?

Kirk

Octopus
02-26-2008, 07:16 AM
My new 22 WalDog, (PPC 0.125 Short) is shooting very tight with with a full case of N133 under a 52 Berger Moly bullet. It makes a very small hole, (Under 0.150 if I do not goof up.) and is better in the wind than I had expected.

With H322 @ 24+ grs and 52 Flower bullets it still has vertical about .3 or more.

I am using a hard jam into the lands. Over 0.060 into the lands as indicated by the marks on the bullet.

D.A. at the range is around 1,900 ft.

With N133 the tune on the barrel is quite wide. Much wider than my 6 PPC L.V. Barrels.

My experience is the 22 dia barrels do need very good bullets.

JerrySharrett
02-26-2008, 07:40 AM
i've shot at least 200 rounds now. with various powder i only have 1 bullet though (getner) (plus non custom bullets yet to try)


Kirk

What does the concentricity of your chamber look like? ie When you look at the freebore/cone in the chamber does it look symmetric? A short 22 should beat nickel size groups with about any of the powders mentioned.

Dick Wright
02-26-2008, 08:00 AM
I had no idea it was that bad. Nickel sized groups at 100 yds. are very unusual for a .22 Short or a 6 PPC. My criteria...

Really bad........4's
Mediocre..........3's.
Any decent gun shoots.....2's.
Good gun, good load......... .150" average

You probably have a bad barrel. Have you changed scopes? There's something waaaaaay off there and it ain't the .22 Short cartridge.

Steve Robbins and Ron Breedlove shoot up here all winter long with a 6 PPC. They like H-322 best for cold weather. However, your nickel sized groups transend powder choice. You should be deciding which powder will take you from flat 2's down to .150" average.

FWIW Mike Ratigan won the Super Shoot with his .22 Short using around 26.5 gr. of a fast lot of 2003 VV 133. Bill Whatisname (I'm senile) won it with 4198 in his .22 Short.

Robbins had a gun problem a few years ago and came up to my place. We put one of my 36 Leup's on his gun after we both shot it (bad results) and it immediately shot well. That was the last I ever saw of that scope.

Try some of Bart's old standard .22 bullets and some of his Zia's. If neither one of them shoots, you got a gun problem. I use 26.1 to 26.5 gr. of the Scottish 322 in cool weather with those bullets and my .22's shoot great. Please note that 26.5 gr. is a HOT load and is best approached slowly from below.

Keep us informed.

Dick

JerrySharrett
02-26-2008, 08:26 AM
I
Bill Whatisname (I'm senile) won it with 4198 in his .22 Short.


Dick
Bill Forester, darn you are getting senile Dick.
Glad I'm not that way!!!

Dick Wright
02-26-2008, 08:31 AM
I got an excuse... I'm a lot older than you. The only guy on here that's older than I am is Joe Haller.:(

Dick

Yeah, Forrester is the guy.

maarten de ridd
02-26-2008, 11:18 AM
Dick;
I hope you keep a keen mind on reloading data, and your articles for many more years.;)
Maarten

Kirk Ethridge
07-20-2008, 09:11 PM
Dick,

this is a real late reply, i hope you get it... the barrel i could not get to shoot was a bad barrel in one way or another. i't the first one i've had that didn't shoot pretty darn good..... guess i was due. the other barrel i had chambered i'm just now testing and it is doing quite well..

e-mail me kirktink@earthlink.net

i have lost your e-mail address

Gene Beggs
07-20-2008, 10:52 PM
i am shooting 220/beggs and having the same trouble I think its in the brass and not having good dies makes it impossible (using wish dies) thats when you wish you had dies (still waiting on hornady)

Nick, call me tomorrow at 432-631-5124 on the dies.

e-mail is,, genebeggs@cableone.net

Gene Beggs

Bob Kingsbury
07-21-2008, 12:56 AM
Somewhere in the beginning of this thread, some one said something about a jump

Dick Wright
07-21-2008, 07:08 AM
If you now have a good barrel, good for you. I had an experimental barrel that actually shot about an inch. I put a tuner on it and could get two shots to just about touch. It's now in the junk pile.

I bought a Beggs tuner from Gene at the Super Shoot. I put it on Glorya's LV gun last week and shot it at home for half a day. It's the first time I ever got a .22 Short to shoot well with 322 in warm, humid weather. Glorya just retired and I needed to get her gun ready.

I shot it in our score match last Saturday with the tuner and the gun shot great with the Scot 322. (The shooter made many mistakes.) Highly recommend one of these tuners.

I'll email you so you have my address again.

Dick

Boyd Allen
07-21-2008, 09:45 AM
A friend had Ron Hoehn build him a .070 short .22PPC. He was struggling untill I loaned him some 130. It was winter, and he couldn't seem to get enough of the lot of 133 that he has into the case to make it work.

Dick Wright
07-23-2008, 06:32 AM
Just last week I got one of my .22's shooting in really humid weather with Scot 322. First time ever. I had bought a Beggs Tuner from Gene at the Super Shoot. I put it on the Scott/Scoville Hall, Glorya's gun.

I took it out on my range to tune it before our score match last Saturday. I diddled the tuner for a while and suddenly it shot great with a load that was giving me vertical previously. It continued to shoot thru the match on Saturday with no further action with the tuner. The humidity was quite high for both practice and the match.

This week I am going to do a lot of work with my Kelbly .22. I have a lot of Isreali 2015 which I have found great on any short .22. We have a group match at the club this Saturday. To me it's the best powder ever for a .22 BR Short (-.200") and I want to see if it's as good for the .22 PPC Short. You'll see how it worked when Big Al posts the results after Saturday.

Incidentally, there's a post here with some Isreali 2015 for sale. To me it would be a good investment for anyone shooting any .22 Short.

Dick

mturner
07-26-2008, 09:53 PM
I know this may seem like a Larry Bagget thing, but today I shot a club match in Lubbock, TX. I decided to bring the 22BRT (short 22 PPC capacity)and shoot it in it's first match ever. After playing with 133 and benchmark testing any tuning for several hours on Friday, I got to the range early to try some new stuff. The gun was shooting well already, but I just wanted to play a little more. I put 26.0gr. H4895 behind a 52gr. It chronograped around 3550 fps. I fired a fouler, then a three shot group of about .050". I then loaded three more and they went through the same hole without even changing it in any noticeable way. I decided to use this load even though I have only fired a fouler and then 6 shots. The gun shot very well all day, winning 100 yds, and hanging in there well enough at 200 yds to win the grand.

Michael

Tony C
07-26-2008, 11:44 PM
Congratulations Michael! The 22 BRT sounded like a winner from the first description.



Tony Carpenter

:)

skeetlee
01-08-2011, 02:05 PM
Anyone shooting IMR 8208 in the short 22? I have a little and all looks good. Lee

Gene Beggs
01-08-2011, 03:33 PM
i am shooting 220/beggs and having the same trouble I think its in the brass and not having good dies makes it impossible (using wish dies) thats when you wish you had dies (still waiting on hornady)


Hornady F/L bushing type dies, custom carbide neck bushings and Wilson seaters are available for both the 220 and 6mm Beggs cartridges.

genebeggs@cableone.net