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Jan
02-13-2008, 07:04 PM
......Hi folks,

I am just asking "What would you like to see listed in the "Equipment List" of the winning shooters (other than your own name)? Most all reports list as follows:
Name Caliber Action Barrel Scope Stocker Gunsmith Bullet Powder Primer Case

Is there any "other" pertinent information you would like to see? What is the definition of "stocker", the stock maker or the person who placed the action into the stock?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions............ Jan

Bnhpr
02-13-2008, 07:11 PM
......Hi folks,

I am just asking "What would you like to see listed in the "Equipment List" of the winning shooters (other than your own name)? Most all reports list as follows:
Name Caliber Action Barrel Scope Stocker Gunsmith Bullet Powder Primer

Is there any "other" pertinent information you would like to see? What is the definition of "stocker", the stock maker or the person who placed the action into the stock?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions............ Jan

Looks good

Maybe which model, not just make in action

And what twist in the barrel

Some may consider this trade secrets though

Lee Hachigian
02-13-2008, 07:44 PM
The one thing that is almost useless on the equipment list is who is the brass manufacturer. You could delete it and save space on the registration form... and no one would ever know it was missing.

One person's opinion :D

Dan H
02-13-2008, 08:58 PM
I disagree Lee, It is very important to know the lot # of the Lupua brass, the year and when you turned it and if it had a soft or hard spot or if it was thin in an area or not, I have some brass:confused: that doesn't clean up until about .0098 and when you mic it that spot shows up. Will that come into play in neck tension or not? Will that make the differance in a 1 or a 2 agg.? Just having fun, a good winter to you.

Kent Harshman
02-14-2008, 09:03 AM
Jan,
I like Kelbly's registration form because it lists both 'Stock' and 'Stocker'. In the last couple of years, I've seen IBS & NBRSA forms requesting one or the other, but rarely both. I agree with Lee about the brass manufacturer, and Kelbly's registration form does NOT list that. Kelbly's form lists Caliber, Action, Scope, Scope Rings, Barrel, Gunsmith, Stock, Stocker, Trigger, Powder, Bullet & Weight, Primer and Rest. Some might consider the 'Rest' to be overkill, but to each his own. In the past several years I can remember Dick Wright or James Mock (sorry guys...no disrespect intended, just can't remember which one of you authored those reports) writing reports in Precision Shooting about the use of the various components at the Super Shoot. While this is a time consuming and tedious venture, it certainly has value to "newbies" who are considering getting into the game, and who want to get a feel for the equipment being used.

jackie schmidt
02-14-2008, 09:10 AM
I doubt anyone goes through more cases than I do during a shooting season, and I can't remember coming accross a bad 220 Russian case. Every one cleans up for my .269 neck, and if there are soft and hard spots, I sure can't tell.
As for things like Powder, I just put 133, as for charge, I just put "lots"........jackie

Maddog
02-14-2008, 09:11 AM
Jan,
I like Kelbly's registration form because it lists both 'Stock' and 'Stocker'. In the last couple of years, I've seen IBS & NBRSA forms requesting one or the other, but rarely both. I agree with Lee about the brass manufacturer, and Kelbly's registration form does NOT list that. Kelbly's form lists Caliber, Action, Scope, Scope Rings, Barrel, Gunsmith, Stock, Stocker, Trigger, Powder, Bullet & Weight, Primer and Rest. Some might consider the 'Rest' to be overkill, but to each his own. In the past several years I can remember Dick Wright or James Mock (sorry guys...no disrespect intended, just can't remember which one of you authored those reports) writing reports in Precision Shooting about the use of the various components at the Super Shoot. While this is a time consuming and tedious venture, it certainly has value to "newbies" who are considering getting into the game, and who want to get a feel for the equipment being used.

I would think that what you ate at breakfast, the temperature it was cooked at, the kind of heat whether it was gas or electric, the nutritional value of the various items consumed at breakfast, and the NET result in ounces should be reported as well. :eek: Of course the brand and the number of plys used is imperative to gain a complete picture. :p An option would be what you read during the "net result" part of the deal.
Dogbreath :D

Dick Grosbier
02-14-2008, 10:58 AM
I disagree Lee, It is very important to know the lot # of the Lupua brass, the year and when you turned it and if it had a soft or hard spot or if it was thin in an area or not.
I have been typing information into equipment lists for 20+ years and never seen any information on brass past just the manufacturer.
However I am in pretty much in agreement with Lee's view on the subject. Aside from the occasional Hunter class shooter all you ever see is Lapua, one other instance sticks in my mind and thats Danny Hensley from southern Virginia who I believe placed second in the IBS Score Shooter of the year competition. Danny shoots Rem Brass in his 30BR an usually beats almost everybody. But otherwise at least 98% of the time Lapua Brass is whats used.

Gil Klemann
02-14-2008, 12:30 PM
I disagree with that last comment. I am new to Benchrest, having only competed for three years. I read the equipment lists avidly every month in both Precision Shooting, and the NBRSA newsletter. Then I make my wish list, and start saving. Keep all of the info coming, even if the loads have changed during the course of the match, at least I will know where to start, and what powder to use when I run out of 8208.

Dick Grosbier
02-14-2008, 01:18 PM
I doubt more than a handful of people read those equipment lists and fully believe them.

Who said anything about fully believing them ? They are a reasonably accurate source of equipment details, and under IBS rules are required to be posted which granted does not always happen. I take loads listed in equipment lists with a grain of salt I have even omitted many since I know many people list clicks on a Culver type measure rather than grains of powder which could result in a serious over pressure situation.
As to listing different suppliers than actually used to avoid having to wait longer times for your own supplies I like to think most competitors have more integrity than that !

Kent Harshman
02-14-2008, 01:31 PM
...while I may agree with you about the absolute specifics of a load over the course of a multi-gun shoot, I disagree with you about the listing of the equipment used, at least by 90%+ of competitors out there.

Wayne Shaw
02-14-2008, 01:51 PM
I like reading the equipment lists. I also know that they may not be accurate all the time, especially when someone lists the powder as "MIX"! However, most of the components are of interest to me. I wish everyone would fill them out reasonably complete.

Jan
02-14-2008, 02:12 PM
..according to what is submitted to me on the registration forms.
We also ask for "e-mail" address so we can save time and $$$$ getting the results and registrations forms out for other shoots.

Richard
02-15-2008, 01:02 PM
to be listed. What type and so on. I have a feeling there are going to be alot more on the line this year.
Richard

Dick Grosbier
02-15-2008, 01:28 PM
to be listed. What type and so on. I have a feeling there are going to be alot more on the line this year.
Richard

This brings up an interesting point in my mind. Tuners have been legal in NBRSA for several years now at least two I believe. In either LV , HV, or Sporter would some of the people who have attended the big matches let us say 40 or more competitors present, tell me roughly what percentage of the rifles on the line had tuners on them ? I realize this will be somewhat of a guess unless it was listed on the equipment list but I value your estimates.

Dick

Hal D.
02-15-2008, 03:24 PM
This brings up an interesting point in my mind. Tuners have been legal in NBRSA for several years now at least two I believe. In either LV , HV, or Sporter would some of the people who have attended the big matches let us say 40 or more competitors present, tell me roughly what percentage of the rifles on the line had tuners on them ? I realize this will be somewhat of a guess unless it was listed on the equipment list but I value your estimates.

Dick

Dick , at the NBRSA nats last fall, I didn't notice many tuners at all, just a handful. I'll bet you would see a higher percentage of them at a typical match in Texas. Once a market for them is created though(which is just starting up now), there will be a steady rise in there use I believe. There are only two people currently that I can think of that are marketing tuners for 100/200 BR(there may be others though), and both are from Texas.

Hal

Wilbur
02-15-2008, 04:34 PM
If the top 10 along with the bottom 10 were listed, equipment listings would quickly become a no never minder.

nickthe
02-15-2008, 04:37 PM
bullet ogive , neck size and reload bushing size, distance from jam .00??

LRCampos
02-15-2008, 06:05 PM
I would like to see listed which Front Rest was used.

maarten de ridd
02-15-2008, 06:32 PM
i would like to know info about the front rest, bullets are nice to know, but a little difficult, or very expensive to obtain here in Europe...
action + model, stock + model might be interesting for the LV's
greetings!
M

Plugger
02-15-2008, 07:15 PM
Well guys, as far as brass goes, in short range Dick is right, but in long range you could have Lapua, Norma Win, Rem, RWS, and may see each and more at any match. I would like to see stock as well as stocker on the form. Of course some won't fill it all in anyway as I have noticed in many score shoots. I like to look at the equipment lists and think they need to be published for each match. I also wish that Fairfax score shoots and Bridgeville 600 yd shoots could find different days to shoot in the winter months since they are the only games around the area in the fall and winter.

Dick Grosbier
02-15-2008, 08:46 PM
You also need to think about the fact that the more information you ask competitors to submit, the less likely you are to get any answers at all.

abraverman
02-15-2008, 08:47 PM
As someone who represents a component manufacturer, we'd like to see as much detail in an equipment list as possible. This helps us to see the markets/competitions that we are involved in with products and match/shooter support. It also shows where we are weak and need to either focus on product or service.

Dusty Stevens
02-15-2008, 09:00 PM
cut it back to gunsmith and bullet mfr

Greg 79 F150
02-16-2008, 08:55 AM
Looks to me like a data sheet that allows the winners that have spent their hard earned time and money while working up accurate loads/rigs, give away their investment data free. A short version of due diligence to newbies....

Keep it short to the shooters name ,gun,scope, and maybe will we see more membership enrollments at clubs. The newbies will need a range and a lot of trigger time to work up their own accurate rig, rather than being a data copier of the winners. :D jmo