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Section61
01-30-2008, 10:02 AM
Hi guys, took me a while to get me logged in to this site.

ANyway, I am from Australia and we are very restricted to longarms, therefore only allow bolt action and pump action rifles, but not pump action shot guns (how silly and ed up is that).

I have been looking at a good some other rifles that are good for target but I like to call it "snipping". HS Precision heavy tactical & short, Kimber Tactical, or the Reminington Police. I have a big favour over the HS-precision tactical because the .308 has 10 round magazine option, where as other are just standard 4 or 5 rounds. Anyway, anyone got any suggestion free feel to brain wash me. Also, last time when i check out the HS-precision short tactical was around $3880 AUS, which is pretty expensive.

Cheers.

82boy
01-30-2008, 10:31 AM
You may get better responces in the factory/hybrid rifle section of this site, or another site. This section and web page deal with benchrest rifles which are a compleate diferent rifle that what you looking at. I dont know the exchange rate on US dollar to aus but I am willing to bet that the 3800 is cheap compaired to building a bench rest rifle.

If your wondering what a bench rest rifle is, it is a custom built gun with accuracy , and fitting rules governing competion being the only concern. You will find a br gun is single shot, in wildcat calibers, with custom super light triggers.

On you quest for a gun dont rule out Savage, they make exelent guns, check out the following two pages http://www.savagearms.com/10fphsprecision.htm and http://www.savageshooters.com/ You might find some information on guns your looking at and answer questions about savages.

Good luck and welcome to the site.

j mckinnie
01-30-2008, 10:31 AM
What do you want to do,type of shooting.Are you shooting paper?What dicipline.BR rifles are 99.99% single shot bolt actions.What game if thats the idea need more info

82boy
01-30-2008, 10:39 AM
Also check out this site, you may get better answers on the rifles your looking at.
http://www.snipershide.com/

paul t
01-30-2008, 04:26 PM
Shoot 2 Blaser LRS2 rifles in 308 & 243 cal, Find them very accurate and the ability to switch barrels in few secs without loss of zero is a big plus.

Gerry
01-30-2008, 06:10 PM
I have 2 rifles. One a m24 with hart bbl on a Remington action
The other a Remington 700 pss both are 308.
Both shoot tiny groups with hand loads.
You can buy a magazine well that holds a 10 shot clip if that's what you want. They are in the BDL configuration. You remove the floor plate and follower,insert the new mag plate, that holds the 10 rd clip.
I hope this helps. I believe badger ordinance sells the parts.

Armourer
05-28-2009, 06:26 AM
A problem I have had with my HTR is that it does not go "bang" every time.
It got a very week firing pin spring or something.
You need ammo with "soft" primers (i.e. Federal).
I would be a lot cheaper for me if I could use Norwegian army 7,62x51 (.308Nato) but my HS rifle will not work with that ammo (or other with "hard" primers)
You should check out the Sako TRG.

amamnn
05-28-2009, 10:32 AM
another sniper site:

http://www.snipercountry.com/

alinwa
05-28-2009, 02:11 PM
A problem I have had with my HTR is that it does not go "bang" every time.
It got a very week firing pin spring or something.
You need ammo with "soft" primers (i.e. Federal).
I would be a lot cheaper for me if I could use Norwegian army 7,62x51 (.308Nato) but my HS rifle will not work with that ammo (or other with "hard" primers)
You should check out the Sako TRG.

If your rifle doesn't go "bang" every time it's probably got excess headspace. It needs to be fixed.

al

alinwa
05-28-2009, 02:13 PM
I have been looking at a good some other rifles that are good for target but I like to call it "snipping".

Cheers.


This is a much better description than the term "sniping" used over on the paramilitary wannabe sites listed!

I like it!

:D

al

fx77
05-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Section 61
You will get man y answers to you rquestion on
www.snipershide.com
just register and post...it is free

Tony Shankle
05-28-2009, 09:07 PM
I have two Sako TRG's. The model 22 also holds 10 rounds of 308. In my opinion they are the gold standard for a factory rifle and will often outshoot my custom guns.:eek: But, you will drop 3 to 4k IF you can find one and another $600 for the bipod, $250 muzzel break, $250 extra mag. They want $650 for there scope mount but it is a waste when you can get a Near.

If it was legal and you had a spare 6k the SR-25 is a very accurate rifle (at least mine is).

Remington has a new one this year that is suppose to have a better trigger but I haven't shot it so who knows. FN is definately worth a look as well as AI.

But with that said, you can build a 700 to do anything you want for less money. Find a gunsmith and go for it!

ForneyRider
06-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Remington and Savage make Tactical .223 Rem and 308 Win rifles in the 500-600 $US range.

The Remington SPS Tactical has a Hogue stock which is comfy, but reduces accuracy potential. Many will replace this stock after a short while.

The Remington SPS Tactical has the X Pro trigger which can be tuned down or replaced easily with a Shilen, Remington 40X, Jewell or other trigger.

Some report 0.5 MOA accuracy with SPS Tactical after replacing the stock and adjusting the stock trigger.

My dad has had great success with his Remington 700 VLS in .22-250. It is available in 308 Win and just a paint job away from "Tactical". The VLS is about 800 $US.

FN Patrol Boat in 308 Win rifle has been at CDNN Investments @ 600 $US. They offer mdl 70 type action with/without stock, in 18,20,22,24 in barrel lengths. Their 40MB PDF file, for their advertisements, is fun reading.

Old Gunner
06-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Many years ago one of our county sheriffs asked if I'd act as a sniper for him if a hostage situation came up, or as a countersniper if some wacko started playing at Charles Whitman. Back then the average LEO around here couldn't hit the ground with his hat.
The Sheriff figured I wouldn't hesitate to bust a cap. Anyway I'm glad he never had to call on me for that sort of thing.

eitmsmf
06-05-2009, 03:39 PM
This is a much better description than the term "sniping" used over on the paramilitary wannabe sites listed!

I like it!

:D

al


I am interested and shoot both benchrest and practical. You only here negative comments like this on this site. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know why you have to hate instead of being helpful like your other posts about benchrest.

alinwa
06-05-2009, 10:47 PM
I am interested and shoot both benchrest and practical. You only here negative comments like this on this site. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know why you have to hate instead of being helpful like your other posts about benchrest.

I notice you use the term "practical" not "sniper"........


diff'rent strokes, as you say.

BTW I have the last 3 signed copies of "Marine Sniper," Rocky woke him up to get them..... CARLOS was a sniper. Some keyboard jockey who's read the DFA's is not.

"have to hate" ?????

Did you vote for Obama?

Lighten up Big Boy.

al

Old Gunner
06-08-2009, 02:56 AM
No amount of training can make a man a sniper, that comes only when he first draws blood. Till then he'd be a highly trained marksman.
Taking a life, even one that should be taken, is not to be taken lightly.

In Job theres a line about the Marauders who are Secure and carry their god in their hands. Somehow I found that apt. The professional carries the power of life and death in his hands.

Louis Boyd
06-08-2009, 10:38 AM
One definition of "Sniper rifle" is simply a rifle used by a sniper. That involves shooting at individuals from a concealed or distant location (per Webester's dictionary). Just about any rifle could be used but few actually are since sniping is a fairly uncommon activity.

However there's another meaning of "sniper rifle". It's an art form best described by an example. A McMillan A2 or A5 stock. A Rem 700 or Win 70 action. A custom 26 or 28" heavy straight taper barrel. A detachable bipod. A Picatinny rail topped off with a 10 to 20x Mil dot scope. Chambering in 308, 300 WM or 338 Lapua is typical. There are lots of variations, but the finish should etiher be all matte black or a pretty "camouflage" paint job.

Accuracy is not of prime importance but most will shoot around 1/2 MOA at usable ranges of 600 yards to a mile. Here's an example of the concept.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/vinyardnd/IMG_2100.jpg

They aren't for hunting. They aren't for competition shooting. They aren't even for military use. The chance of them actually being used for sniping is very low.

alinwa
06-08-2009, 10:08 PM
One definition of "Sniper rifle" is simply a rifle used by a sniper. That involves shooting at individuals from a concealed or distant location (per Webester's dictionary). Just about any rifle could be used but few actually are since sniping is a fairly uncommon activity.

However there's another meaning of "sniper rifle". It's an art form best described by an example. A McMillan A2 or A5 stock. A Rem 700 or Win 70 action. A custom 26 or 28" heavy straight taper barrel. A detachable bipod. A Picatinny rail topped off with a 10 to 20x Mil dot scope. Chambering in 308, 300 WM or 338 Lapua is typical. There are lots of variations, but the finish should etiher be all matte black or a pretty "camouflage" paint job.

Accuracy is not of prime importance but most will shoot around 1/2 MOA at usable ranges of 600 yards to a mile. Here's an example of the concept.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/vinyardnd/IMG_2100.jpg

They aren't for hunting. They aren't for competition shooting. They aren't even for military use. The chance of them actually being used for sniping is very low.

Louis, the accepted term is and has been "tactical" or "practical"....... you don't see the "A" series stocks being presented by McMillan as "sniper stocks." The Chandler Bro's build a fine tactical rifle. They favor McMillan. I've been over to the various "sniper" forums. I've watched the Iron Brigade Armory get TORN UP over on the "sniper forums" because some farmboy figgers he k'in get 'er done better/cheaper. And I know real snipers. I find much of the stuff on the "sniper forums" to be keyboard krap.

Hey, it's a free country. You wanna' align yourself with a bunch of keyboard kowboys it's your deal. Conversely, it's my right to give the real guys their due and the wannabe's my opinion. The real shooters I know don't set around bragging on internet sites about how badass they woulda' be. The shooters I know take the concept of taking a life seriously, it ain't a video game.

Going over to one of these "sniper sites" is about as enlightening as finding a "cop board" where cop dudes sit and toot about "whacking perps" and "bumping gangbangers" and trading domestic assault stories......

Guess I was raised different.

know a lot of cops too

tough jobs both


al

jackie schmidt
06-09-2009, 07:56 PM
The fundemental purpose of "sniping" is to end the life of another human being. We understand that there are times when this is the correct action that professionals must take against those that would do others harm.

Making "sport" of that has always made me feel uneasy. Maybe I am a closet "pinko", "wuss", or God forbid, someone who thinks that human life is sacred, and the taking of it should never be trivialized, or made sport of.

I see men who like to dress up in camo, combat boots, carry scary looking weapons and pretend to "make war".

Back in 1968, Uncle Sam issued me some camo, combat boots, gave me a scary looking weapon, and told me to go fight. I had no say-so in the matter.

Now, I do. I would rather not. I bet a lot of other Veterans feel the same way........jackie

Louis Boyd
06-10-2009, 01:10 AM
Back in 1968, Uncle Sam issued me some camo, combat boots, gave me a scary looking weapon, and told me to go fight. I had no say-so in the matter.
Now, I do. I would rather not. I bet a lot of other Veterans feel the same way......jackie

I'm curious what you think constitutes a "scary looking weapon"?
A bayonet?
A grenade?
An M-14?
An M-16?
An M-60?
An M2HB?
A Cobra helicopter?
A B52?

None of those are the least scary looking to me. Not unless I was on the receiving end. Then any would be terrifying.

I'm a veteran too and also went into service in 1968. You've chosen to enjoy benchrest shooting. I've chosen to enjoy shooting rifles from bipod or bags at variable distances without the benefit of wind flags or sighters. We both strive to improve both our personal skill and the performance of our rifles. It's just a little different set of skills.

I'm sure we both clearly understand the difference between killing humans and shooting inanimate targets. But it should also be obvious that either of our rifles could be lethal to a human.

If you think rifles are scary because they are weapons which can kill why do you shoot them for fun? Surely you don't think their cosmetic appearance matters to their lethality.

If they scare you, why aren't you watching TV or knitting instead. Or maybe you enjoy being mildly scared, like watching horror movies which are very unlikley to hurt you.

I don't think your rifles or mine are at all scary. They'd only be scary if someone with no common sense or a warped concept of morality was using them and it woudn't matter which rifle they were using.

What does scare me is knowing that the most powerful weapons in the world are controlled by relatively small number of politicians with questionable morality and ethics. That really is scary.

Danny Reever
06-10-2009, 06:51 AM
I agree with what Jackie said. Amen!

As to what constitutes a "Scary looking weapon", my defination would be "any weapon that is pointed at you!"

Danny

jackie schmidt
06-10-2009, 01:23 PM
I have never hid the fact that I am not much of a "Rifleman". The Rifles I shoot in competition are nothing more than the tool that allows me to compete.

When I raced Boats, the Boat was that tool. When I raced Drag Bikes, the Motorcycle was that tool. When I showed a car, the car was that tool.

I look at a Benchrest Rifle as a rather singular purpose piece of equipment, suitable for shooting small aggregates in a Competitive Arena, controled by a Sanctioning Body. It has been rendered usless, as far as practicality goes, for use in just about any other firearm endevour. A Benchrest Rifle has about the same relationship with the rest of the shooting world as does a NHRA Pro Stocker does to the Automotive World,

But, for what it is designed for, nothing else will come close. I define this as "accuracy for accuracy's sake". All other perameters that define firearm performance take a backseat to the primary purpose.

If a person wants to participate in, and enjoy, an activity that simulates blowing a persons brains out, that is their business. I just choose not to........jackie

brian roberts
06-10-2009, 01:48 PM
I find I agree with the last sentence in #22, and I find I can easily agree with the last sentence in # 24 as well. And not necessarily in that order. Thank you, Gentlemen. ;)

DR4NRA
06-11-2009, 04:56 PM
I agree with what Jackie said. Amen!

As to what constitutes a "Scary looking weapon", my defination would be "any weapon that is pointed at you!"

Danny

Danny, What my definition of a "scary weapon" is encountering any human being that is intent on killing you with any and all means possible, and without any regards to thier own well being.

DR

Dan1894
06-12-2009, 08:38 AM
Making "sport" of that has always made me feel uneasy. Maybe I am a closet "pinko", "wuss", or God forbid, someone who thinks that human life is sacred, and the taking of it should never be trivialized, or made sport of.

I see men who like to dress up in camo, combat boots, carry scary looking weapons and pretend to "make war".
I complete concur with the juvenile view some take to war, apparently having never having grown up from their little boy or "hollywoodized" world. But this is completely different from your last sentence.

I guess some men take their militia responsibility more seriously than others or express it in different ways. I wouldn't even have a pocket knife with me in a first responder situation myself, and just a lever action if I could make it home in a Pearl Harbor situation. But I certainly appreciate the militia citizenry who are prepared just as I appreciate those in the military in my stead and service. As a geek my militia service would mainly be in information and communications. But computers aren't protected by the law of the land - arms are.

Would an active military or reserve training exercise scare you? It meets the attributes you posted. It scares me to some extent, but that's because of a view of standing armies that I share with our founding fathers.

I do not mean to seem rude, just want to challenge your thinking a little. And if we ultimately disagree, the constitution allows for such disagreement as well. :)

DR4NRA
06-13-2009, 08:54 AM
I complete concur with the juvenile view some take to war, apparently having never having grown up from their little boy or "hollywoodized" world. But this is completely different from your last sentence.

I guess some men take their militia responsibility more seriously than others or express it in different ways. I wouldn't even have a pocket knife with me in a first responder situation myself, and just a lever action if I could make it home in a Pearl Harbor situation. But I certainly appreciate the militia citizenry who are prepared just as I appreciate those in the military in my stead and service. As a geek my militia service would mainly be in information and communications. But computers aren't protected by the law of the land - arms are.

Would an active military or reserve training exercise scare you? It meets the attributes you posted. It scares me to some extent, but that's because of a view of standing armies that I share with our founding fathers.

I do not mean to seem rude, just want to challenge your thinking a little. And if we ultimately disagree, the constitution allows for such disagreement as well. :)

Been reading this thread for awhile now, and responed once, but feel the need to do so again due to people not understanding the views of Jackie an Al.
They both make good points, and the "scary weapon" comment is valid. Posting a quote from wikipedia.


"The term sniper was first attested in 1824 in the sense of the word "sharpshooter".[2] The verb "to snipe" originated in the 1770s among soldiers in British India where a hunter skilled enough to kill the elusive snipe was dubbed a "sniper".[2]

During the American Civil War, the common term used in the United States was "skirmisher". Throughout history armies have used skirmishers to break up enemy formations and to thwart the enemy from flanking the main body of their attack force.[3] They were deployed individually on the extremes of the moving army primarily to scout for the possibility of an enemy ambush. Consequently, a "skirmish" denotes a clash of small scope between these forces.[4] In general, a skirmish was a limited combat, involving troops other than those of the main body.[3] The term "sniper" was not in widespread use in the United States until after the American Civil War.

In the last few decades, the term "sniper" has been used very loosely. Gun control advocates used this term so loosely that some people even called it sniping when a handgun was used; the term "sniper rifle" was considered very "scary sounding" and was very effective in inciting fear, evoking a lot of unsettling images, such as "a lone gunman, undetectable, on the hunt".[5][6]

The term "sniper" has been used in more serious tones especially by media in association with police precision riflemen, those responsible for assassination, any shooting from all but the shortest range in war, and any criminal equipped with a rifle in a civil context. This has rather expanded the meaning of the term. It has also given the term "sniper" mixed connotations. Official sources often use more positive connotative terms to describe snipers, especially for police snipers: "counter-sniper", "precision marksman", "tactical marksman", "sharpshooter", "precision riflemen", and "precision shooter". Some of these alternatives have been in common use for a long time; others are closer to undisguised euphemisms."

So as the last 2 paragraphs state the terms "Sniper", and "Sniper Rifle" have been used by the media and gun control advocates for years as a way to invoke fear and and anti-gun sentiment.

As far as the comment of active military,reserve training exercises, which I take to include the National Guard, here is another Quote.

"The Militia Act of 1903 divided what had been the militia into what it termed the "organized" militia, created from portions of the former state guards to become state National Guard units, and the "unorganized" militia consisting of all males from ages 17 to 45, with the exception of certain officials and others, which is codified in 10 U.S.C. 311. Some states, such as Texas and California, created separate State Defense Forces for assistance in local emergencies. Congress later established [43] a system of "dual enlistment" for the National Guard, so that anyone who enlisted in the National Guard also enlisted in the U.S. Army. [44]"

So by that rule, any Reserves or National Guard units that train in Camos, combat boots, carry Scary looking weapons, and pretend to make war, are doing so because that is thier Job.

The term "Militia" came into disfavor in the late 80s and early 90s as we had paramilitary groups stockpileing weapons, explosives, and running around in camos,combat boots, carrying Scary Looking Weapons, and playing war while spewing anti-sementics, and anti-government propaganda. This again gave the anti-gun movement more ammunition to frighten the populace of this country and further thier cause.

If you want to participate in these types of activities, it is your right to do so, but I will not. My camos and camoed rifle will only be used for deer hunting or other varmint hunting activities. If the need ever arises that I have to defend my life, liberty, and country from threats both foreign and domestic, my camos,combat boots, and "Sniper Rifle" will be ready, willing, and able to do so. Till then I will not give the people who wish to take away my rights to own firearms any ammunition to use against me.

I will use your last sentence in closing as it fits.

I do not mean to seem rude, just want to challenge your thinking a little. And if we ultimately disagree, the constitution allows for such disagreement as well.

DR