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Kodzoff
01-25-2008, 09:34 PM
Is it a reasonable idea to attempt to build a rifle that would be competitive in both 1000 yd. light gun including traditional PA rules (16.5lbs.) and IBS generally (17lbs.????) and F-class ?? I assume a person would be giving up weight as F-class is, I think 22lbs, and that might likely be in barrel contour and stock weight (which might be added as needed) but do people do it successfully and if so what combination of components might be good - Stock - mfg. and style and material, barrel contour, lenth and weight, and scope Mfg. and power and reticle. Thanks for your thoughts.

Cochran
01-25-2008, 10:49 PM
One of the most successfull F-Class rifles ever built is a 6BR made to fit light gun rules. It doesn't hurt that it has a good driver. I'm sure he'll se this post and give you some specs.

Lynn
01-25-2008, 10:55 PM
Jerry Tierney won the NBRSA 1000 Yard Nationals with a pair of F-Class guns a couple years ago.I think one was a 280 and the other a 6.5 but I'm sure somebody will know exactly what they were.
Lynn

JeffVN
01-26-2008, 11:34 PM
One was a .284, I beleive the other was a 6.5x284.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek053.html


JeffVN

John Kielly
01-26-2008, 11:50 PM
Is it a reasonable idea to attempt to build a rifle that would be competitive in both 1000 yd. light gun including traditional PA rules (16.5lbs.) and IBS generally (17lbs.????) and F-class ??
I hope so, because that's how I plan to run.

At the moment, I'm not totally disgraced running my F/TR rifle as a light gun, but it's a bit of a challenge because it's set up for 155s - not the greatest windbuckers.

LarryBartholome
01-27-2008, 12:11 AM
One of the most successfull F-Class rifles ever built is a 6BR made to fit light gun rules. It doesn't hurt that it has a good driver. I'm sure he'll se this post and give you some specs.

Mr. Cochran may be referring to my first F-Class rifle a 16 lb 6BR. I used a McMillan MBR stock, a Stole Panda action, Anschutz trigger and a 1/8” BlackStar 30” long barrel with a Weaver T-24x scope in Jewell rings. The entire rifle weight was 15.96 lbs. The barrel was 1.25” for a 5-7” and tapered to 0.940” at the muzzle.

I built the rifle so I could compete in F-Class, NBRSA, IBS and the Original Pennsylvania Benchrest Club matches all with one rifle. It was legal for anything. Jeff might be right about it being one of the most successful F-Class rifles ever built. It won an awful lot of matches, was used to fire the first ever F-Class 200-20x clean on the Palma target and set a NBRSA world record of 2.653” back in 1999 before 6BR became the in cartridge.

I still have all the pieces and parts and could put it back together if I had the time to shoot it again. The barrel has 4500 rounds thru it and I would feel pretty confident shooting it in a match. You can read about it n the book Precision Shooting at 1,000 yards.

In 2000 I tried to get the 16.5 lb limit approved as the limit for F-Class shooting in the first World F-Class Championships but was out voted.

A do everything rifle can be used to good effect if you have the right mind set and have confidence in your equipment. I wouldn’t want to use one in a 300 WSM, but I know a guy in Albuquerque who would love it. A 6mm (6BR/6BRX/6-6.5x47Lapua/6XC)of some kind might be more reasonable.

Welcome to F-Class!

AlanF
01-27-2008, 09:01 AM
Larry,

I have gained a new admiration for 6BR shooters as of yesterday when "attempting" to coach a couple of club team members at 1000yds. I managed to get them both a clean miss, thanks to under-estimating the effect of a change :o. The targets were only 6 foot wide, and both windspeed and direction were varying, but my 6.5-284 would have stayed well on the target. They were using 107SMKs with 30gn of H4350 in 28" barrels so velocity must have been around 2800fps? It really confirmed to me the importance of high BC and velocity in rough conditions at the longs (at least for us mortals).

Alan

LarryBartholome
01-27-2008, 09:51 AM
Alan,
God! “6BR shooters as of yesterday” makes me feel Old!
All the US target frames are 6 foot wide; we don’t have any wider ones! I use about the same amount of power you mentioned, but I use Varget. My 6BR’s give me 2890-2930 fps with 105-107 grain bullets. Your rifle/ammo has to be setup correctly to achieve this however.

HTSmith
01-27-2008, 07:04 PM
Would be waaaay slow in a 6BR. Try Varget, R15, or 4895.

Cochran
01-27-2008, 10:44 PM
Larry

If you decide to sell that rifle, give me first shot at it. I'm apparently starting a collection.

Jeff

AlanF
01-28-2008, 06:40 AM
Larry,

The "as of yesterday" was referring literally to yesterday when I was at the range! And the way you have been shooting, you have no need to be worry about your age, whatever it is.

HTSmith,

On second thoughts it may have been Varget that was mentioned - I did chronograph one of them at under 2800fps.

Alan

Kodzoff
01-28-2008, 05:46 PM
Thanks to all for your very helpful replies. The particulars of the sucessful rifles is particularily helpful and I have enjoyed the tour of those cross references you all provided. What is the comparable barrel life for 6mmbr, 6BRX, 6BR-DX and 6 Dasher??

LWWalker
01-29-2008, 09:55 PM
Is it a reasonable idea to attempt to build a rifle that would be competitive in both 1000 yd. light gun including traditional PA rules (16.5lbs.) and IBS generally (17lbs.????) and F-class ?? I assume a person would be giving up weight as F-class is, I think 22lbs, and that might likely be in barrel contour and stock weight (which might be added as needed) but do people do it successfully and if so what combination of components might be good - Stock - mfg. and style and material, barrel contour, lehnt and weight, and scope Mfg. and power and reticle. Thanks for your thoughts.

GREETINGs Build your gun to PA. rules. Then when U are shooting F-class, IBS, NBRSA, attach a 8" wide, 8" long, 1/2" thick metal PLATE to your gun Forearm. Have a 8" wide front rest head made for this plate. Add weight in but stock to balance gun for tracking. Use PVC tubbing, INSERT Copper tubbing into PVC, add lead weights inside copper tubbing. Fill around PVC with insulation foam in a can, let harden. Barrel 29" MAX after that you will need a barrel-Block .Let GAR-TAN Rifles, put it all together.YOU BE GLAD U Did.... Glass use, Night-force, USoptics, Power 20x fixed or for higher power use variable scope for mirage, with 1/8" clicks, Reticle use 1/8" Dot. keep both eyes OPEN ,one for target, one for the flags. Master reading the WIND.... and send a lot of bullets down range in the WIND... KNOW the WIND... Have FUN ..... L.W.

LWWalker
01-29-2008, 09:58 PM
Ttt.

LarryBartholome
01-30-2008, 06:54 PM
LW,
While adding weight to a rifle up to the allowed limit can be done you have to be aware of all the rules for each discipline you are going to shoot in. For example in F-Class there is a 76mm (slightly less than 3”) limit on the width of the forend.

I agree Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan Rifles does some fine work.

fleetus
02-09-2008, 12:41 PM
Is it pretty well documented what barrel contour is needed to reasonably make it under 16.5# with a 28"+ barrel? I've heard mentioned people talking about a contour from approx. 1.2" O.D. at chamber down to approx. .85 or .9 at the muzzle. Is it not possible to go with a heavier barrel, even with flutes maybe?