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View Full Version : Yikes! XR-100 Discontinued!



VarmintGuy
01-23-2008, 12:56 PM
Yikes! Its seems the folks at Big Green have discontinued the XR-100 Rifle!
I just picked up my 2,008 Remington catalog and was hoping they would have expanded the offerings (17 Remington Fireball) in this Model, but NO, I could not find reference to the XR-100 anywhere in the catalog!
I just called Big Green and in moments I learned the sad fact that they had indeed discontinued this nifty Rifle.
Sheesh I thought.
I have two of these wonderfully accurate, well fitting and handsome Rifles and I could not be happier with them.
The "person" on the line at Remington with me would offer no reason why they have been discontinued.
I own the XR-100's in 204 Ruger and 223 Remington and the only other caliber I have seen them advertise or offered in was 22-250 Remington.
I have some "mad money" on hand so I better get busy and find one in 22-250 before they dry up.
Puzzling this decision by Remington as all the ones I have seen on store shelves ended up selling!
Many of my friends have these Rifles and shoot them with pleasing results - at least I have not heard any complaints from them.
Yikes!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

keithcandler
01-23-2008, 01:15 PM
have allowed companies like Cooper, TC, Sako, etc to flurish.

caroby
01-23-2008, 02:52 PM
Puzzling this decision by Remington as all the ones I have seen on store shelves ended up selling!
Many of my friends have these Rifles and shoot them with pleasing results - at least I have not heard any complaints from them.
Yikes! VarmintGuy
Weird!!! I agree that from what I've seen/hear, the XR-100 in all calibers has been a real success..............:confused:!?!
I've shot two 223/22-250 the .223 bedded nice and it shot! The 22-250 was box stock and a solid 3/4MOA shooter.....

Love the little XP-100 action.... Good greef Remington...? What gives!
Glad I got a couple XP-100 action rifles converted builtup in my safe (one a 10.5 speedy sleeved bench gun, the other a great walking varminter .221 fireball)
Not sure what Rem is gonna bring out to better the XR-100... I'm not a big thumbhole stock fan but the Rem XR-100 stock was nice for factory offering.

Hummmm... Me thinks this is not a good decision?
cale

333smitty
01-23-2008, 04:56 PM
Its hard to understand Remington's desision to decontinue
the XR-100.
I have a .223 and it out performs ALL of my factory rigs.

Got it to agg in the mid 3's (100yds) when I used BR tuning
technics. For the money you can't beat it!

Anybody got any feed back on the XR-100/308? I believe
Gander Mountain had exclusive rights to this model.

How well did it perform???

VarmintGuy
01-23-2008, 05:29 PM
333smitty: One of the recent posters here got my curiosity up by mentioning the 308 calibered XR-100 as I had never heard of it nor seen reference to one anywhere.
And along the lines of the XR-100 in 223 Remington performing well my all factory stock model in 223 has now averaged .378" per group (5 shots at 100 yards) since the day I pulled it out of the box!
This average includes groups made using ammunition for another 223 of mine and all my handload testing groups!
Admittedly of recent I have been shooting Bergers 52's in it, I never shoot it for group on windy days and it has a Leupold 8.5x25 variable scope attached - but still for an all factory Rifle that is excellent performance!
Another puzzling decision from the fine folks at Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

333smitty
01-23-2008, 06:28 PM
Varmint Guy,
Your .378 group average coupled with my XR's mid .3xx agging capabilities
proves these rigs are capable of shooting excellent groups right out of
box.
I used Bart's 52gr f/b LT jamb, VV-133 past half way, :cool: Lapua brass,
Fed 205m primers, and mod nk tension. Leupold/Premier 20x-50x and a
Jewel BR trigger.
I will reiterate what you said. If you see XR-100 on a rack somewhere
buy it.

Vic

tylerw02
01-23-2008, 06:35 PM
I believe the .308 Win version was a Gander Mountain exclusive. The first XR100 I saw was there and indeed, a .308 Win.

308 shooter
01-23-2008, 07:21 PM
The fact that it was single shot probably did not help keep it in the lineup. Myself, I would rather have the single shot - in fact my 700 repeaters I use as single shots having never fed a round from the magazine. But most of the "shooters" I know would not even consider a single shot.

I actually considered the XR-100 in .223. Liked the thumbhole , did not care at all for the "cooling" vents or the choice of stock color. The two tone brown of the VLS laminated stock looks much better to me.

Sounds like they are great shooters! VarmintGuy , I hear you on those 52 Bergers , they have shot well for me in every .223 I have owned!

Talon1959
01-24-2008, 10:57 AM
I have one of the .308 XR's. Gander had one on close out plus 10% off. I paid $580 plus tax for it.

I'm not a fan of the thumbhole stock like I thought I would be, but when I get the rifle in a comfortable position, it's the best shooting gun I own (Savages and Wins). The XR shoots way better than I do.

I added a normal kick-eez recoil pad to legthen the LOP and it just may do the trick. I'm waiting for the weekend to see.

I have some bonus money coming (I hope) and was on the hunt for a .223. I wonder how high the prices will go now. :eek:

333smitty
01-24-2008, 11:37 AM
You got great deal on your XR-308. I paid around $750 for my 223.

The next time you take it out. Try 5 -5 shot groups to check the agging capabilities of this rifle.

I'd like to see if it performs as well as the other XR variants.

VarmintGuy
01-24-2008, 12:06 PM
Talon1959: Wow! I would GLADLY pay that amount for a 22-250 in the XR-100 model!
Of all the things I keep track of in my loading log (serial numbers, date of purchase, who I bought from, scope serial number and on and on) I never write down the price I pay for my new Rifle acquisitions!
My memory keeps the price I paid for them only for about 2 -3 years in most cases and then it fades away.
But I am certain I paid a lot more than what you did for my two other XR-100's.
I am a large person 6' 3" with a long neck and plenty of body mass and I simply can not find a position where the XR-100's stock does not feel comfortable to me!
Anyway I wish your stock fit you better and was more to your liking.
I have had a couple of McMillan stocks added to reworked XP-100 actions (same dimensions as the XR-100) when I made them into Varmint Rifles. So I know the McMillan folks can match you up. The model of stock I chose from McMillan was called the "Marksman" - it is an exact copy (except its fiberglass) of the pre-64 Winchester Model 70's "Target" or "Marksman" stocks used on their "Target Rifles" and "Bull Guns". It also VERY closely resembles the old wooden stocks used on Remington 40X Rangemasters.
So if interested go find one of the above models of Rifle and try it out before ordering.
I hope the new pad makes it more suitable to you and your needs.

333smitty: Every time I "swear off" buying Berger bullets (due to my remote locale and difficulty in obtaining stocks of them) I get another wonderful performance from a Rifle when I shoot them - so I keep going back to using the Bergers time after time.
AND they are quite lethal on Varmints and not prone to ricochet like the wonderfully accurate but hard as nails Sierra 52 and 53 gr. bullets are!
I am planning a trip to Idaho Falls to check the gunshops there for an XR-100 in 22-250. As soon as the mountain passes clear up a bit I am headed south!
I-15 was closed recently for two days (at the Montana/Idaho border) due to ground blizzard conditions.
I really am perplexed as to why Remington discontinued this model - I saw lots of them sell here in Montana, Idaho and on the west coast?
Oh well.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Chisolm
01-24-2008, 12:24 PM
VarmintGuy

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/remington-xr-100-22-250-575-a-23532/
I have no connection to this gun but saw it and thought you might be interested.
James

tylerw02
01-24-2008, 02:24 PM
I believe Zanders is closing them out. Our local shop marks up 10% from cost. One lucky fellow walked out with a NIB .204 Ruger XR-100 merely $450 the poorer.

Talon1959
01-24-2008, 02:44 PM
Is the .204 a shooter? I have heard 2-3 guys give up on the XR's in .204.

tylerw02
01-24-2008, 04:25 PM
Here is a group I shot with my .204 Ruger over the weekend in 20*F weather. The "flyer" was simply the cold-bore shot.

Remington 700 VLS, bedded out past the chamber all the way to the tang, tuned trigger, Callahan Speed-Lock, Leupold 6-18x40mm AO.

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v173/21/41/48003735/n48003735_31908545_3468.jpg

Talon1959
01-24-2008, 05:32 PM
I am a .204 fan and have one in a Savage Model 11 that's a shooter for sure. I was just wondering about the XR-100. If one could be had for $450 like the poster above stated I MAY be interested.

The guys complaining about the XR's in 204 were saying something about the long chamber throat which is way beyond my understanding at this point in my rifle hobby.

My little Savage is a yote killing smoke pole. :)

Butch Lambert
01-24-2008, 06:06 PM
I talked to a friend[Kim LeHew] who owns Accuracy Arms and he said that at this time his supplier has all calibers in stock. You can call Kim at 1-972-771-8977. He is a very god guy to deal with.
Butch

lefty o
01-24-2008, 07:12 PM
remington has gotten to the point where they will do anything to turn a quick buck, and selling hi quality rifles is not high on their priority list. they make more money selling the 710/770 pile of junk, not to mention importing the old interarms markX at an inflated price, and the crudely built russian shotguns. short term they will make money, long term they will turn away customers. could be the beginning of the end!

Willyboy
01-25-2008, 01:11 AM
I was thinking of getting an XR100 in 223. What is the difference in the action from a Rem 700 SA BDL? I have an older Rem 700 BDL V in 223 that I just put on an HS Precision stock with aluminum bedding blocks and it shoots very well. I think the XR 100 action was first used on the XP pistol, but is that action that much different or better than the 700 action? Thanks...

Guy Pike
01-25-2008, 07:30 AM
I wonder if Remington,Marlin,NEF being owned by the same bean counting firm means that decisions are being made at the top which may not be especially beneficial to experienced consumers who already have gone through the introductory stages of their shooting careers?

Stan Pollak
01-25-2008, 08:27 AM
Tyler,
If I could get that kind of group out of my 204 or 22's, I think I'd wet my drawers-kick'in!-Stan:)Share your sport.

Stan Pollak
01-25-2008, 08:28 AM
Tyler,
If I could get that kind of group out of my 204 or 22's, I think I'd wet my drawers-kick'in!-Stan:):cool:Share your sport.

VarmintGuy
01-25-2008, 11:51 AM
Chisolm: Thank you so very much for the "tip" on the XR-100 in 22-250! I am heading for the Post Office soon to get a money order for the Rifle in question!
Had a nice chat with the current owner of the XR-100 last night and I think I will give it a try.
Thanks again!

Talon1959: My XR-100 in 204 Ruger has a long throat (IMO) but it still shoots VERY well indeed!
Let me list for you the last 4 (four) five shot groups at 100 yards this Rifle has made: .421", .374", .402" & .322"!
Now remember Talon1959 these groups were made with Varmint Hunting type bullets and a Varmint Hunting type scope!
My friends with XR-100's in 204 have had just the opposite reaction to them as your friends have - my friends love them!
This brings us to the topic of long throats vs. accuracy!
In my experience, just because a Rifle has a long throat DOES NOT MEAN that you can not get pleasing accuracy from it!
I have shot EXCELLENT groups with handloads having their bullets seated 1/20th of an inch from the leades of the Rifling, MANY times.
Granted I would prefer that factory folks would keep the throats of the chamber to the short side, but in and of itself a long throat is no reason to sell or give up on a Rifle.
Believe me when I tell you I have and am HAPPY with a bunch of factory Rifles with long throats.
Indeed, in over 45 years of shooting Rifles I have on MANY occassions seen accuracy in a particular Rifle INCREASE simply by SHORTENING the cartridges over all length - in other words "artificially lengthening the neck" - or in other words lengthening the jump of the bullet to the leades of the rifling.
Again a long neck or chamber throat is no reason in and of itself to give up on a Rifle.
Those XR-100's may not have shot well but there are a myriad of reasons that may happen - as we all know - the other side of the coin is many XR-100's (some with long throats!) do shoot well.
Still I think its a shame that nifty little single shot bolt action Rifle won't be offered anymore.
How about the savage Rifles you own, how do their throats come from the factory? Short, medium, long?
Heres to accurate factory hybrid Rifles - salude!

Butch: Thanks for that tip I will save his info. Yesterday I got a tip on a used but like new XR-100 in 22-250 that I am following up on.
Thanks again.

Tyler: Those "first shot fliers" have bugged me for decades! I attribute it to Break Free soaked barrels and like you say on a 20 degree day that would be some cold steel that first bullet is travelling down!

Headed for the Post Office - thanks all.

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

tylerw02
01-25-2008, 11:52 AM
That took extensive load development for sure. My rifle has very little headspace for a factory stick...0.002" to be exact.

But to be fair, those are three shots through the tiny hole and the cold-bore low and right of it. With cold-bore it was a suitable group a bit over .5 moa. This thing shoots well, but not usually that well! Usually 3 shot groups are clover-leafed in the high .2s and low .3s. Five shot groups generally run about .35 moa. Good enough for my prairie dog hunting!

tylerw02
01-25-2008, 11:56 AM
Varmintguy:

I've rarely seen a rifle that didn't have a cold-bore flyer. Mine is consistent and within MOA, so it does not bother me too much.

VarmintGuy
01-25-2008, 03:48 PM
Lefty o: Your deprecating (expression of disapproval) statements regarding the folks at Remington I think are ambiguous and specious (without merit).
Name one company that is not interested in "turning a buck" quickly.
And people BUY their products!
I for one have not turned away from them!
I think that anyone that has is cutting off their own nose to spite their own face!
They make some excellent products both Rifles and shotguns!
Every product that Remington makes is not "FOR" everyone! If you don't like the 710's - don't buy them.
But they do have an EXTENSIVE lineup of firearms and products and folks seem to be buying them about as fast as they are made (or imported)!
If you have proof to the contrary please provide!
Remington naysayers and besmirchers have been predicting the demise of Remington for the past 4 decades that I know of - they are still in business and still producing the best selling factory Rifle (the Model 700!) ON EARTH!
And PLENTY of people are still buying them.
Again you have every right to complain about specific problems you have or had with Remington products, but your ambiguous and mean spirited musings about the Remington line is unfair and unwarranted.
In the past 15 days I have bought 3 Rifles with the Remington name on them - obviously I am not persuaded by baseless condemnations like yours.
Long live Remington Arms Company!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy
01-25-2008, 04:00 PM
Tyler02: My Remington 700 VLS in 204 Ruger is all stock with no modifications as yet.
Its last two five shot groups at 100 yards measured .480" and .398"! I have been real happy with this Rifle and its the first 204 I bought.
I have about 850 rounds down the tube now (I brought it online in April of 2,004) and the barrel still looks quite "fresh".
This Rifle shot factory ammo (Hornady 40 grainers, which was all that was available back when the 204's were new) in the mid 4's! That may not be saying much for my handloading abilities but thats the way it was.
Wishing you continued good luck and happiness with your Remington in 204 caliber.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

lefty o
01-25-2008, 04:13 PM
varmintguy, i just call it how i see it. never said you had lead your life based on my opinion of remingtons quality of late. if you take my opinion of remington personally , you've got bigger issues to worry about.

333smitty
01-25-2008, 04:26 PM
Well said Varmint. You made some excellent points about
the quality and character of Remington Arms.

You forgot to mention that Remington rifles are "easy on
the eyes" as compared to their competitors offerings. :cool:

Lefty o,

What kind of rigs do you play with???

tylerw02
01-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Remmy's are easy on the eyes!

And quality, well I've got a group posted up there. I'm just an ignorant trigger yanker and they shoot well for me ;)

nitro72
01-25-2008, 05:53 PM
i bought the xr-100 in .308 and was not impressed with the way it shot at all .9in 5 shot group at 200yrd with168gn nosler custom competition bullets was the best i could get from it .75 5 shot group at 100 same bullet,tried different seating depths, cleaning methods, and bullets but those worked the best , I also found it to be a constant struggle to keep the copper out of the barrell even when cleaning after each 5 shot group.had it pillar bedded tryed different scope, different mounts, new brass nothing seemed to work to make it shoot nomatter who was pulling the trigger. but on the other hand the action worked great to build a new rifle off of it, Krieger #17 barrel in 6.5x .284 win new hs. precision stock just getting brass formed and barrell broke in shot .3 in at 100 and we havent even started workin a load up yet.

tylerw02
01-25-2008, 06:23 PM
H-S makes a stock for the XR-100? Mind posting a picture of your rifle? I'd like to see it.

nitro72
01-25-2008, 06:30 PM
not realy for the xr 100 as we found out the hard way the short action rem 700 is around .75 inches longer than the xr 100 acton so we had to fill the slot for the bolt and make a new one if i can figure out how to post a picture i will

lefty o
01-25-2008, 06:45 PM
333smitty, ive got a little of everything. 700's, mod70's, savages, coopers, and others. the 700 is still a good rifle, my assesment of remington is based on the junk they are currently importing, and the 710/770 P.O.S.

nitro72
01-25-2008, 06:54 PM
here is a couple of pics of my rebuilt xr 100 , also the front screw for the action had to be moved turned out to be more work than we expected but it turned out good. paint is a duracoat pattern.

VarmintGuy
01-26-2008, 11:21 AM
Lefty o: Its not that you have an opinion, lefty o, that bothers me - its that your opinion is baseless and mean spirited AND without any merit what so ever!
You have enough to worry about without concerning yourself about "MY issues"!
One thing you should worry about (and it should be very high on your worry list!) is you being so wrong about something so self evident.
Remington Arms Companies Rifles and sales are doing quite well, despite your naysaying and snide remarks regarding them!
If you have some proof Remingtons are not selling well and the Company is on the verge of bankruptcy please provide it!
If not keep your baseless opinions to yourself - it demeans you and provides NO truthful or helpful insight to anyone else.
And, now and then, you will run across a person (such as myself!) that will not put up with your baseless and mean spirited BS and will call you on it!
You've been called lefty o.
Remington Arms Company is not perfect (nothing is!) but to slather about insinuations of greed and unworthy and unwanted products again is simply not helpful.
Long live Big Green!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Blake Stevens
01-26-2008, 11:24 AM
Remington has the XR-100 listed as available on their website under "products"

see link - http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/xR-100_rangemaster.asp

chambered in 204, 223, and 22-250.

Has anyone called Remington to confirm if this model has been discontinued ?

My distributor has many in stock and has recv'd no word from Remington that this model has been abandoned.

if Big Green threw in the towel on the XR, it's quite certain their bean counters are more concerned about quantity vs. quality

blake

lefty o
01-26-2008, 11:43 AM
alright varmintguy, they may not go belly up tomorrow or even next year, but they are selling some mighty juky guns right now. the 710/770 are just cheap junk, care to disagree. their mausers are the old interarms mkX, not a good quality rifle, but they sure decided to jack up the price once they stamped the remington name on it. now lets get to the russian built shotguns they are passing off, they are crudely built- ever take one apart, i have lets say it is some of the poorest excuse for machine work ive ever seen inside of a gun. so are my claims still baseless? i dont think so. the 700, and 870 are still good guns, and are what will keep remington afloat- not all the other trash they are passing off. so out of all the guns remington is selling, 2 are of good quality that you can expect to last a long time, and the rest arent worth what they cost, so yeah, i guess im being mean spirited.

Talon1959
01-27-2008, 12:32 AM
I have just gotten serious into rifles but have lots of years behind shotgun stocks. When I was a skeet-a-holic I was shooting 13,000 rounds a year in my 1100 and my Krieghoff K-32. I have always been impressed with how the 1100 swings and fits most folks out of the box. I somehow collected 12 Remmy autos over the years and won't part with any of them. MOre 1100's have won world titles in skeet and trap than any other auto combined.

My only complaint about the Remington matte finish shotguns is that they seem to rust in the box. I fixed that by having the receiver and bbl teflon coated beacuse we hunt the salt marsh of the Texas coast.

I plan to take the XR-100 .308 out tomorrow to see how the new LOP works for me. I think I have it fitting better now. I am also just an ignorant trigger yanker shooting off sand bags with a bone stock XR. If I can't get happy with the fit and feel of the thumbhole stock, I will sell it.

On the Rem 710/770, I handled one and though what a POS! A guy came to the range with one to sight it in for his first deer hunt. He was next to me and after about 7-8 shots he had that $275 rifle shooting about 1.5" consitantly. He shot a box a shells fairly quick and then happily went on his way. Would I own one? No, but I do know that remington has sold a LOT of them and they seem to fit the bill for they were designed for.

I guess I am a fan of Remington and admire their moxy to try to keep up with the demands of a very fickle public.

I'm just thankful that we still live (for now) in a country where we can enjoy our guns and sit around the computer and swap information and achievements. All good. :)

VarmintGuy
01-27-2008, 01:29 PM
Lefty-o: You cite Remington ONLY making 2 (two!) firearms that are not "trash" or "junk" well I beg to differ with you - in the extreme!
Starting with shotguns let me hear you call their 1100's a piece of trash OR their 11-87's OR their new 105CTi, or their Premier Grade over and unders OR their Premier STS Competition shotguns or any of the 1100 Competition shotguns OR their SP (Special Purpose) line of waterfowl and Turkey guns OR their new SPR 453 or any of the Model 1100 Tactical shotguns?
Next lets move over to their offerings in Rifles and see how you could possibly justify calling their Model 7 line of Rifles OR their 40X line of Rifles OR their new R-15 (AR type) Rifle or their 597 line up OR their beautiful Model 547's as junk and trash!
I am willing to BET that you can't honestly describe those arms as "junk" OR "trash"!
Even if you did try there would be millions of shooters that have and will disagree with you who have and will buy them - NOT just me!
If you do not like the 710's or their newish Mauser style Rifles then don't buy them but don't try to besmirch the whole extensive lineup of Remington Arms by pointing out that these lower end arms are ALL that Remington is!
Nothing could be further from the truth!
And, I am taking this opportunity to let it be known that your type "mean spirited" condemnation is neither factual not effective!
AND I will publicly state again that the PURPOSE of enterprise and business is to make a "BUCK"! Sheesh man you burp that up like its un-American or something - ITS NOT!
Its the basis of our successful capitalist system!
Sheesh!
I heartily recommend you stop cutting of your nose to spite your face and try some of Remingtons best selling arms and when you do I am betting that you will be pleased with them.
I know I sure have been!
You might take some consideration of Talon1959's observations of the "inexpensive" Remington Rifle he saw performing at the range recently?
Just a thought!
Your over-zealous condemnation of Remingtons line-up of arms, again I state is baseless and mean spirited.
I invite you to try and prove me wrong.
I am glad you are coming around on the fact that the successful folks at Remington are not about to "go under" like some Remington "naysayers" have been predicting for the last 40 years (that I know of).
Long live Big Green!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy
01-27-2008, 01:46 PM
Blake Stevens: You might have missed my original posting where I described not seeing the XR-100 Rifle listed in the brand new and official Remington 2,008 hands on hard copy catalog. And then immediately calling the Remington Arms Company on the PHONE and speaking with an employee of Remington Arms Company about one topic and one topic only: the XR-100 Rifle and its current production status!
I will quote from him "no the XR-100 Rifle is NOT in the 2,008 catalog as production of that Rifle has been discontinued for 2,008".
I have no doubt there are some XR-100's in the retailer-wholesaler-distributor pipeline as I made inquiry there AND indeed I found some XR-100's in 22-250 Remington still available!
I have also sent money through the U.S. mail to buy one of these arms from a private citizen in a neighboring state.
I will relay to you that I am 99.99% sure that Remington has indeed ceased production of the XR-100 Rifle and I think thats a shame as it was a handsome and good performing Rifle. I have been to the Remington Arms Company site many times and indeed they have a picture of the XR-100 on their web site but when you download their 2,008 catalog and go to the Rifle section no mention or image of the XR-100 Rifle is there.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Talon1959
01-27-2008, 07:26 PM
After some frustrating attempts on the sand bags today, I had just about given up on the gun amd me.

Then a BR shooter let me put the gun in his 19 pound rest and WOW! Four shots in hole ragged hole. So basically I have been pissing in the wind up until now.

Ah, being a newbie sucks sometimes. :eek:

lefty o
01-27-2008, 09:41 PM
wow varmintguy, glad you like your remingtons. and yeah, the SPR's are crudely built junk. we could argue this endlessly, but you have your opinions, and i have mine. i dont think thats going to change. remington needs people that have blind loyalty like yourself. because your opinion of remington could be the only possible one that is acceptable, i guess i have to go buy one of each now. so what kind of car do you like, ford or chevy? thats always a fun discussion where only one mans opinion could possibly be okay!

VarmintGuy
01-28-2008, 11:13 AM
Leftyo: Its not "MY OPINION" that makes Remingtons products sell so well its MILLIONS of other peoples opinions that you are pitted up against!
If your mean spirited and myopic observations can somehow surmount that incredibly huge pile of endorsements, I will really be surprised!
Chances are your baseless and mean spirited observations won't have any effect on Big Greens sales at all!
Your feeble attempt at pawning the Remington Arms Companies success off onto "one mans opinion" is grossly inadequate - much like yourself and your attempt at trying to cover your mistakes by shifting the discussion off onto vehicles!
Lame brother, LAME!
Right out of hand I also want to dispell any misconception you might have regarding my "blind loyalty" - I also own Rifles made by Winchester, Ruger, Kimber, Marlin, Weatherby, Sako, Browning and about a dozen other lesser known brands and customs!
So much for your additional inaccuracies!
Long live Big Green
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Willyboy
01-28-2008, 11:38 AM
You two guys be nice back there or I will stop this website immediately and go back home I don't care how far we've come. Boy I haven't said that since my kids grew up...

tylerw02
01-28-2008, 12:49 PM
For the guy that doesn't want an accurate rifle, who wants to buy one and take it out and shoot it with a pre-mounted scope, the 770 fits the bill. Though, its junk, its not a good assessment to judge the entire company by.

The Model 7, 700, 870, 1100, 11-87, R-15, 504, etc are all quality products at reasonable prices. People don't judge Savage on the model 40. They don't judge Ford based on the Escort, they don't judge GM on the Geo. I cannot fault Remington for selling a $300 rifle/scope combo that is worth $300.

lefty o
01-28-2008, 01:39 PM
varmintguy, your an idiot! why is it your opinion is any more valid than mine? ive pretty well stated my case, the 710/770 are junk, the mausers(interarms MKX/charlesdaly mini mauser) are low quality, and the russian made line of shotguns are crudely made. like i said i own a 700, and would not have a problem owning another or an 870, however i wouldnt own anything else in their product line. why is it i am not allowed to have that as my choice, and i must blindly follow what you say?! the change to cars, was not to shift the subject, it was an attempt to show you how friggen stupid it is of you to argue that my opinion is any less valid than yours. you do understand what the word OPINION means dont you? i have not told you that because this is my opinion you cant have your own, nor have i stated because this is my opinion that you should not buy any remington product no matter how inferior i deem it.

wadevb1
01-29-2008, 10:07 AM
I for one have turned away from Reminton. After buying my LVSF .204 I can't do better than 3-4" groups at 100 yards. All kinds of things were done to get her to group, nothing-nada-nope. Remingtons reply: we find those groups acceptable for a hunting rig. "We have no accuracy gaurantee."

Why would anyone want to roll the dice and get a lemon where they don't get customer support. They wouldn't even give me the extension to the next person in charge! With so many rifles such as Tikka, Sako, Savage and Weatherby Sub-Moa to choose from.

Wade

tylerw02
01-29-2008, 12:05 PM
3-4"?

Something is definitely going on there. Since its such a junk gun, I'll give you $100 for it :D

wadevb1
01-29-2008, 01:03 PM
Generous offer, but I'll have a new krieger on my door step in another 9 weeks or so. Gre-Tan will be able to print the action and screw the new tube in by July. Then it should shoot like an ugly Savage.

Wade

tylerw02
01-29-2008, 02:56 PM
Of all the 700s I've shot, (which is a rather extensive number, my buddy collects "classics"), only one would not break MOA, that was a .35 Whelen.

Worker
01-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Business is business. Perhaps they took it for vote with share holders and it was thumbs down.I don't care for that style of stock,but so what who am I. I bought a Cooper classic instead.Sorry to here of that lemon LV-SF those look cool to me. Especially their response.I had a Rem 700 sporter in 300 RUM it was a great shooter,after I replaced the trigger and put a Hough after market stock on it.They look great but you always seem to have to tune them up. Savage looks like tupperware . Sako or custom for me.

VarmintGuy
01-29-2008, 07:27 PM
Left o: How quickly you resort to name calling!
That is the sign of an immature mind and a complete LACK of substantive argument!
I thought as much!
He-he!
Now, AGAIN, disregard my experiences and opinions if you want - but I am still waiting for you to explain away the millions of other peoples (who continue to buy Remingtons many and varied products!) "opinions" and experiences.
I am expecting more immature name calling and lack of substance from you - please don't disappoint.
You are not "blind" lefty o, you are a Remington naysayer and millions of satisfied customers prove you wrong!
Its that simple!
The difference then in our opinions, there lefty o, is your opinion is provably wrong!
Folks buy Remington stuff like hotcakes!
And unfortunately (for you!) YOU are not smarter than everyone else!
Now keep up with the name calling and the immature antics all you want - I will still ask you POLITELY to TRY to prove your point!
Expecting that you as a Remington naysayer and a proven "exagerator", WON'T do that, I am expecting another round of nose picker mentality, immature name calling from you!
And by the way there left o, I am not calling you names - I am describing your apparent mental state and maturity level.
Keep the name calling to a minimum please and try to come up with something substantive IF at all possible!
I went on an extended Coyote Hunt early this A.M. and two of the three Rifles along with us said "Remington" on the side!
Hmmm.... that may be a bit of real life information there for you to try to "absorb" there lefty o!
If you care to open your mind a bit?
You Remington naysayers are SO EASY to blow out of the water!
Its almost fun to do. He-he!
Long live the Big Green!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

BJS6
01-29-2008, 08:13 PM
Lefty O is right Varmint Guy, you are an idiot !!

Nearly every post you make sings the praises of Remington and you try and cram them down the throat of anybody that will read your wordy posts. Your opinion is that they are the best thing since sliced bread, others don't share the same view, get over it.

I wouldn't own a Remington if you gave me one, I just don't like them, that is my opinion ! In my opinion they are mainstream rifles for the masses and I would rather spend more money and get a serious bit of custom hardware than buy a Remington and spend good money trying to make it into something worth owning. I don't care that millions of people the world over have bought Remingtons, I just don't like them and don't want one. Doesn't make me wrong, I bet there are rifles you have no time for, we each have our tolerance level and mine is above a Remington !!! Over the years my preferences have changed and I have little interest in anything outside custom and maybe another Cooper or two. I am not wealthy I'd just rather have a few really good rifles than a bunch of ho hum mainstream stuff like Remingtons. You and the millions of other happy Remington owners are welcome to them !!

So far as the XR100 being dropped, who cares. They are ugly and only a passing excuse for a single shot accuracy set up. I'd guess Remington dropped them like a turd because they never sold well and didn't make them enough money.

Stan Pollak
01-29-2008, 09:39 PM
Maybe I'm stepping into it here, but I thought I'd insert that I bought one over a year ago and finally got it to group in the 4's-5's before final "honing" the next time I get a chance to go out. I did have to get the crown redone about six months ago. I'm very confident in it's final testing. Stan:)Share your sport!

Crusader
01-29-2008, 11:33 PM
Remington still has the rifle on their web site, are you sure its just not Gander Mountain that has dropped selling it?

lefty o
01-30-2008, 01:03 AM
thank you BJS6, varmint guy just cannot see how blind he is. and yep, VG i resorted to name calling after numerous posts of you trying to cram your opinion down my throat. he is in fact worse than an idiot, but i cant write the correct descriptive term without getting myself banned. varmintguy, must be nice to live in your own little world where only your opinion could possibly be correct. excuse me your holiness for having an opinion other than yours! now how can i prove my point if you refuse to to turn on your hearing aids, ive stated several times the shortcomings of some of remingtons products, but you seem to fail to comprehend the english language. if you get this excited about someone saying something about remington, god forbid i didnt say something about your dog. so go relax, take a chill pill, and dont take someone elses opinion personally. oh, and so far the only thing you've blown out of the water is your own ego!

Ackman
01-30-2008, 02:01 AM
Varmintguy at it again.....don't you ever get tired of this stuff?

I have a bunch of Remingtons and like them just fine. If Lefty doesn't like them, so what? That's his privilege. You think this mantra about "millions of satisfied customers" and "proof" makes any difference? or that it'll change anyone's mind? They're right Varmintguy......you're an idiot and a windbag and ought to have more going for yourself than to be offended by someone not liking something.

Worker
01-30-2008, 02:23 AM
Hey there was once a British General aboard British war ship in the middle of a historic battle. He saw two crew members fighting,he ran to the both of them grab them both and said " Hey look out there that's our enemy". The anti gunners would love to see us fight amongst our selves especially over a trivial topic like this. Hey united we stand and divided we fall. Lets keep our focus on the big picture.:mad:

juice
01-30-2008, 07:36 AM
I have a 2 700's (a 308 and a 223AI built by Richard Franklin) and an XP 100 in 7BR. They function well and shoot well. JMHO

pendennis
01-30-2008, 10:42 AM
I believe the .308 Win version was a Gander Mountain exclusive. The first XR100 I saw was there and indeed, a .308 Win.
Last year, for my retirement present, I bought the XR100, in .308, at Gander Mountain. I put a Bushnell 4200 Elite 8-32x40 on it, and it drives tacks! Hard to believe that with Savage bringing out a true F-class rifle, that Remington would discontinue such a fine rifle. I really thought they might expand the caliber offerings to the .260 Remington, for example.

It looks like Remingtion is concentrating on the AR-15 concept.

Best,
Dennis

pendennis
01-30-2008, 10:47 AM
i bought the xr-100 in .308 and was not impressed with the way it shot at all .9in 5 shot group at 200yrd with168gn nosler custom competition bullets was the best i could get from it .75 5 shot group at 100 same bullet,tried different seating depths, cleaning methods, and bullets but those worked the best , I also found it to be a constant struggle to keep the copper out of the barrell even when cleaning after each 5 shot group.had it pillar bedded tryed different scope, different mounts, new brass nothing seemed to work to make it shoot nomatter who was pulling the trigger. but on the other hand the action worked great to build a new rifle off of it, Krieger #17 barrel in 6.5x .284 win new hs. precision stock just getting brass formed and barrell broke in shot .3 in at 100 and we havent even started workin a load up yet.

Nitro, I've had the opposite, though with a different bullet. I originally tried Black Hills, .308, with a 168gr BTHP. It shot just under 1"@100 yds with factory ammo. I tried some different powders, but used the Sierra Match 168gr BTHP, and it neatened down to .5"@100 yds. It holds to 1"@ 200 yds. I couldn't ask more for a factory rifle with no stock work.

Best,
Dennis

pendennis
01-30-2008, 10:55 AM
Business is business. Perhaps they took it for vote with share holders and it was thumbs down.I don't care for that style of stock,but so what who am I. I bought a Cooper classic instead.Sorry to here of that lemon LV-SF those look cool to me. Especially their response.I had a Rem 700 sporter in 300 RUM it was a great shooter,after I replaced the trigger and put a Hough after market stock on it.They look great but you always seem to have to tune them up. Savage looks like tupperware . Sako or custom for me.
Worker, not to put too fine a point on things, but Remington has no shareholders, a la publicly owned corporation. They are owned entirely by the Cerberus group, a privately held equity fund. They also own Bushmaster, which is probably the genesis of the the new AR15-type Remington markets.

The management decisions are only subject to the scrutiny of Cerberus' management.

Best,
Dennis

VarmintGuy
01-30-2008, 02:04 PM
Well I am just in a happy dither here in SW Montana!
Even though its been to windy to go to either one of my ranges to shoot (for going on 2 weeks now!) - I got a new (to me) Rifle in the mail today!
And I am just thrilled with it!
I bet this happy dither lasts all day long!
Anyway the Rifle is a Remington XR-100 in caliber 22-250 Remington!
And I want to publicly THANK both the cyber-space fellows who helped me come to own this Rifle!
One posts here under the "name" Chisholm and he was kind enough and thoughtful enough to take the time to give me direction to this Rifle, that was being offered for sale on another Shooters Forum!
I went there and got in touch with the nicest guy, that was from the Boise, Idaho area who was patient with me while I asked 100 questions about the Rifle he had offered up for sale!
The Rifle got here bright and early this morning and like I said I could NOT be happier with the Rifle or with the effort these two cyber-space guys went through to fill "the gap" in my Varminting arsenal!
Not only did the Rifle get here in a matter of just a couple of days since I became interested in it - the Rifle is EXACTLY as it was advertised!
Not only that, the cyber-guy from the Boise area took the time to include his best load info for me to get started with!
Not only that, he was thoughtful enough to include with the Rifle an odd little Allen type tool to work on the Burris Rings that came with the Rifle!
This kind of camaraderie (espirit de corps!) renews my faith in the world!
Thanks to both of these guys, and if ever there is anything I can do for you please honor me by allowing me to do that favor for you!
I can't wait to put together some loads and buy (or rob!) a scope for it and get out and shoot it!
Thanks again, to both of you!
VarmintGuy

Chisolm
01-30-2008, 05:50 PM
VarmintGuy
I'm glad to hear that everything worked out for you. I would have felt really bad if there had been problems after posting the lead here.
James

VarmintGuy
01-31-2008, 11:15 AM
Chisholm: James, no need for any trepidation on your part! I inquired as much as I could regarding the Rifle and I made the final decision to send the money for it.
Win, lose or draw with the Rifle from here on out I still appreciate the "lead" you gave me!
Winds are gusting to 40 M.P.H. here today so no chance of shooting just working on the new Rifle (robbing a scope for it off of another Rifle - and making up some precision handloads for it).
Thanks again James.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Worker
01-31-2008, 06:56 PM
So how cold is it? How much would that blow a bullet at 100 yards? Never been in those conditions ,I'm from Kalifornia I'm wearing shorts and feel oppressed by horrible gun laws.

VarmintGuy
01-31-2008, 08:08 PM
Worker: The national weather information site says its 27 degrees and the wind is a steady 24 MPH! Both I feel are a bit lagging behind. My thermometer says 24 degrees and the wind is gusting to 35 MPH, I am certain!
Its just grundgy here in SW Montana and thats UNUSUAL.
One of the Rifles I need to do my initial load testing for is a 222 Remington - I am guessing a cross wind of 35 MPH would move its bullet about 4 inches!
Shorts for you huh?
Sheesh!
I was just in Phoenix, Arizona for a week in early January doing a body guard assignment and it was 71, 72, 73 and 68 degrees (for highs) while I was there.
THEN, I came home on the day it was -17 degrees (17 degrees BELOW zero!) here, now that was culture shock!
But it has warmed up here since then - its just the wind won't calm down and I can't go shooting!
Sorry about the gun law situation in California - to bad for law abiding Americans!
You guys are still Americans aren't you?
We should all be real careful WHO we vote for.
Hope things improve for you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Bnhpr
03-18-2008, 05:13 PM
I put 200 rounds through my XR-100 308 last week, while the weather broke.

Narrowed down to 2 loads, 48 grains Varget, 155 Berger VLDs. shot .3's and 47 grains varget with 155 Lapua Scenar shot .2's and .3's for several 5 rounders.

Nathan's rifle (same as mine) shot .2's for several groups of 168 SMK's with Varget powder.

Hornady SST's in 165 and 180, not worth a toss. Swift scirocco's shot poorly also.

Talon1959
03-18-2008, 10:33 PM
I ended up crossing my fingers and got the Weaver T-36 scope and I am pleased with it so far. Now I can see that tiny pencil dot on the target that the BR guys are shooting at. I'm getting consistant .5's with factory Rem 308 match ammo. Adding a thicker recoil pad to lengthen the LOP made a world of difference in they way the gun fits me.

I have ordered my manual, press, primers, VV 150 and Varget powder, and some match king 168's to start out with. I have a helluva a lot to learn
but I have a couple of super nice guys at the range who are helping me shorten my learning curve. I've loaded shotshells by the tens of thousands in the past 11 years so I am not a complete newbie to loading ammo.

I'm looking forward to learning to load my own ammo and becoming a better rifle shooter.

VarmintGuy
03-19-2008, 12:14 AM
Talon1959: that is some great shooting with factory ammo! Good for you and the XR-100.
I am just the opposite in my loading experience - I have never loaded a shotshell nor a pistol cartridge (I got FREE pistol ammo for 29 years!)!
But I taught MYSELF to reload Rifle ammunition when I was 12 years old and that was nearly 48 years ago! I have been "going strong" loading Rifle ammo ever since.
I do a couple thousand Rifle handloads a year minimum.
Best of luck with the handloads now in your XR-100!
Also this - are you are large person?
I am 6' 3" tall and the XR-100 stocks of my three Rifles fit me to a "T"!
I am puzzled that you needed more length of pull for your best fit.
I do have a short neck though.
Sounds like your shooting (.5" groups with factory ammo!) is just fine.

Bnhpr: Yours and your friends Rifles are shooting so well I am continuing my quiet search for one of Gander Mountains "special" 308 XR-100's and doing so with a little more urgency now!
That is some amazing shooting with a factory Rifle in 308 caliber!
Good for you guys.
I did run into an XR-100 (NIB) in 223 Remington for $650.00 and I may push myself to buy that one, even though I already have ONE in that caliber.
Keep up the great shooting.
Wind was just blazing along here in SW Montana again today - this has been by far the windiest winter here in SW Montana since I moved here nearly 11 years ago!
I am 3 Rifles behind now that need sight in verification and one that needs a bit more load development!
Cursing the wind does NO good - I have found.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Talon1959
03-19-2008, 10:12 AM
I'm 6-2 and 260lbs. No neck and long arms. LOL! :eek:

I would love to keep shooting the factory Rem ammo, but it's $30 a box. I have enough Rem brass to last a good while. One of the guys that shoots BR at the range gave me 3 of his reloads and the rifle [U]really[U] showed me what it can do.

Bnhpr
03-19-2008, 10:17 AM
Talon1959: that is some great shooting with factory ammo! Good for you and the XR-100.
I am just the opposite in my loading experience - I have never loaded a shotshell nor a pistol cartridge (I got FREE pistol ammo for 29 years!)!
But I taught MYSELF to reload Rifle ammunition when I was 12 years old and that was nearly 48 years ago! I have been "going strong" loading Rifle ammo ever since.
I do a couple thousand Rifle handloads a year minimum.
Best of luck with the handloads now in your XR-100!
Also this - are you are large person?
I am 6' 3" tall and the XR-100 stocks of my three Rifles fit me to a "T"!
I am puzzled that you needed more length of pull for your best fit.
I do have a short neck though.
Sounds like your shooting (.5" groups with factory ammo!) is just fine.

Bnhpr: Yours and your friends Rifles are shooting so well I am continuing my quiet search for one of Gander Mountains "special" 308 XR-100's and doing so with a little more urgency now!
That is some amazing shooting with a factory Rifle in 308 caliber!
Good for you guys.
I did run into an XR-100 (NIB) in 223 Remington for $650.00 and I may push myself to buy that one, even though I already have ONE in that caliber.
Keep up the great shooting.
Wind was just blazing along here in SW Montana again today - this has been by far the windiest winter here in SW Montana since I moved here nearly 11 years ago!
I am 3 Rifles behind now that need sight in verification and one that needs a bit more load development!
Cursing the wind does NO good - I have found.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have to admit that the LOP is a little short for me, I am also 6.3"

But, LOP is a preferencial issue, and to me, has a lot to do with the bench setup

Worker
03-19-2008, 04:12 PM
Worker: The national weather information site says its 27 degrees and the wind is a steady 24 MPH! Both I feel are a bit lagging behind. My thermometer says 24 degrees and the wind is gusting to 35 MPH, I am certain!
Its just grundgy here in SW Montana and thats UNUSUAL.
One of the Rifles I need to do my initial load testing for is a 222 Remington - I am guessing a cross wind of 35 MPH would move its bullet about 4 inches!
Shorts for you huh?
Sheesh!
I was just in Phoenix, Arizona for a week in early January doing a body guard assignment and it was 71, 72, 73 and 68 degrees (for highs) while I was there.
THEN, I came home on the day it was -17 degrees (17 degrees BELOW zero!) here, now that was culture shock!
But it has warmed up here since then - its just the wind won't calm down and I can't go shooting!
Sorry about the gun law situation in California - to bad for law abiding Americans!
You guys are still Americans aren't you?
We should all be real careful WHO we vote for.
Hope things improve for you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I'd like to live in Nevada because its a gun friendly state and close to the desert. As an Iron Worker I deal with the elements daily. Working on the bridge many days I was forced to wear thermos ! But dang man those temps you quoted Well what do people do when it gets like that? Ice Fishing? Are there homeless people up there? What sheltered life I've lived.....

Bnhpr
03-19-2008, 06:53 PM
Ok, Here's the pic of my xr-100 someone asked me about. Note, I machined off the forearm with a fly cutter in a mill. It is flat and paralell with the barrel.

I also have an aluminum piece that goes between the pistol grip and rear swivel stud (not show) paralell to the forearm.

This helped the rifle track much better in the rest/bag.

Craiger5658
03-20-2008, 05:11 PM
I heard the same thing about the discontinuation and have also heard they're just revamping it with some other items and may be out next year as "new and improved". None the less, I went out and bought one in .204 and although it doesn't really like 40 grain bullets, which is fine with me, it'll shoot my pet 32 grain Sierra BK load under .5" all day. That, and I haven't really tried to work up a load for it yet. And I haven't done anything to it either. Other than put a Leupold 6.5x20x50 on it so I can see. Couldn't be happier with it and I only paid $625 for it. I lied just a second ago, oops! I did glue in a couple of lead bars in the forend for added weight to help keep it on target so I can see the little critters go away. I'm also tall at 6'5" and will probably add a recoil pad for extra length. Might pillar bed it then glass bed it also to see if that'll shrink the group sizes.

Love the round and both my .204's - LRPV and XR-100!

308 shooter
03-21-2008, 10:50 AM
Reading all these glowing reviews makes me wish I had not bought a Savage 12BVSS .223 back in late 2006. Should have picked up the XR-100 in .223 instead , sounds like I would have been far more satisfied. But I do own two 700s that perform exceptionally well - a 700LTR and 700SPS in HS Stock - both in .223.

Bnhpr
03-21-2008, 10:55 AM
Reading all these glowing reviews makes me wish I had not bought a Savage 12BVSS .223 back in late 2006. Should have picked up the XR-100 in .223 instead , sounds like I would have been far more satisfied. But I do own two 700s that perform exceptionally well - a 700LTR and 700SPS in HS Stock - both in .223.

How does the savage shoot?

I know they handle like crap with the tupperware stock, but my friends model 12 .308 will give me a run on my xr-100 .308

308 shooter
03-21-2008, 02:07 PM
How does the savage shoot?

I know they handle like crap with the tupperware stock, but my friends model 12 .308 will give me a run on my xr-100 .308

Actually my 12BVSS has a very nice laminated stock and is very stable off a rest. The rifle has shot some very nice groups just not consistently. At first I attributed this to the rough bore which I thought would smooth out over time. About 300 rounds later things have not improved. The bore has to be cleaned quite often.

I have used two different scopes - A Weaver V16 duplex and Burris Fullfield 12X. I may mount a second V16 with target dot for the next range session.

The trigger while not a Jewell , is a Sharp Shooter Supply unit installed and adjusted by Fred Moreo of SSS and set at around 14oz.

As far as my ability to shoot consistent groups , it is not a problem with my two 700s.

I have thought of installing a Lothar Walther Supermatch but will probably try to trade it. Unfortunately I have a feeling the Savage , even with the great accuracy rep, will not have a lot of value.

Bnhpr
03-21-2008, 02:49 PM
Actually my 12BVSS has a very nice laminated stock and is very stable off a rest. The rifle has shot some very nice groups just not consistently. At first I attributed this to the rough bore which I thought would smooth out over time. About 300 rounds later things have not improved. The bore has to be cleaned quite often.

I have used two different scopes - A Weaver V16 duplex and Burris Fullfield 12X. I may mount a second V16 with target dot for the next range session.

The trigger while not a Jewell , is a Sharp Shooter Supply unit installed and adjusted by Fred Moreo of SSS and set at around 14oz.

As far as my ability to shoot consistent groups , it is not a problem with my two 700s.

I have thought of installing a Lothar Walther Supermatch but will probably try to trade it. Unfortunately I have a feeling the Savage , even with the great accuracy rep, will not have a lot of value.

There are some folks on here that have reported good luck from the pac-nor savage drop ins.

I'm a 700 fan as well though.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Rflshootr
03-23-2008, 02:53 PM
Does anyone know if the XR action screw spacing is the same as the 700 short action? or maybe the model 7? or is it completely different?

Bnhpr
03-23-2008, 03:27 PM
Does anyone know if the XR action screw spacing is the same as the 700 short action? or maybe the model 7? or is it completely different?

7

VarmintGuy
03-23-2008, 07:18 PM
Worker: Eleven years ago I moved out of the "homeless people" capitol of the world (the Seattle, Washington area!), I dealt, as a law enforcement type, with homeless folks thereabouts for 29 years!
Some of those "homeless" types were mentally impaired folks (tragic this!) and some were substance abusers (serves them right) and some were regular folks who were down on their luck for a time.
LOTS of them out there on the coast - but then again it doesn't get down to 35 degrees below zero out there like it does in Montana, and the local governments here in Montana do not cater to substance abusers!
Next to NO long term homeless types here in Montana - some hermits but next to no homeless.
Day before yesterday I got a report from a friend near Wisdom, Montana (elevation 6,100') that it had gotten down to 6 degrees BELOW zero there overnight! Next to impossible to be homeless, even in late March, hereabouts.
Ice fishing is VERY popular here in Montana. I have even tried it a number of times myself!
I would rather spend my winter days reloading ammunition and Hunting Coyotes though.
Another contrast - if I might digress - is moving from the Bank Robbery Capital of America, Seattle, Washington to Dillon, Montana - where the last bank robbery occured more that 110 years ago! The ill fated bank robber tried to speed out of Dillon on his horse only to have it slip on ice and break down allowing the Sheriff and his posse to catch up and take him into custody!
Culture shock - is the best way to describe my move to Montana!
Long live Montana
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy
03-23-2008, 08:54 PM
Craiger5658: I sure hope you are right about the XR-100 being revamped and available again in the future!
That would be fine with me!
Also my XR-100 in 204 Ruger caliber shooting 32 and 35 grain bullets seems to hold still enough at the shot for me to see my bullets impact.
How much lead did you add to your XR-100's forearm?
I have one in 223 Remington and may try your modification on it to improve its stability at the shot.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Bnhpr
03-23-2008, 09:10 PM
Montana sounds like Maine used to be.
Now, with crippling taxes, we are socializing ourselves into similar community.

The state, is now the largest employer in the state.

Anyway, good idea about adding weight.

My picture is lousy, but I milled the forearm flat, and it tracks a lot better in the rest.

Ben

Talon1959
03-23-2008, 10:15 PM
I gotta at least take a vacation to Montana. Especially during the summer. Montana and Wyoming are on my "bucket list". :rolleyes:

cannon30
03-29-2008, 10:05 AM
If you have a XR100 in .223 do a chamber casting they are chambered off from the center line of the bore. I had one that would not group and did a chamber casting an found that the lands ran all the way to the case neck on one side and about .050 up on the other side. I sent it back to Remington they said they would fix it. but after two mounths i called them they said they were wating on a barrel assembly. I bouth another one to rebarreled to 17 Fireball. Did a chamber casting on that one and found it had the same problem SN was 2347 higher. Called Remington and told them what i had found. They told me that it is a discouned rifle that no part are avable so they would not fix them so what did i whant them to do with the one they had. Not a very good way to run a bussnes.

VarmintGuy
03-29-2008, 02:21 PM
Cannon30: Yikes - that is some sorry quality control you ran into there!
I don't think I am going to be doing a chamber casting of my XR-100 in 223 Remington - it shoots so well that even if it had some defect I would just keep shooting this one!
I am going to look at my XR-100's chambers with my Siebert Bore Inspection Tool, and will pay special attention to the case neck and symmetry of the rifling - where it starts.
If I understand the defects in your two XR-100's - I am puzzled how they could have done this. Again if I understand your description correctly then the only thing I can think of is the folks at Remington chambered the rifled barrel with a chamber reamer that was defective in some way or did not have a proper "pilot".
I simply don't know how this could have happened and to have happened to you twice is also very puzzling!
In any event the folks at Remington SHOULD have bent over backwards to correct the situation as quickly as possible - two months would have been way to long to correct - let alone however long you are going to have to wait!
Sheesh - come on Big Green - get it together!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

cannon30
03-29-2008, 05:58 PM
Remington sad they can not repare the rifle they have no barrel and action assemblies and they can not rebarrel a rifle so they will buy it back from me or return it to me as is. I am havein it returned and i will buy a throating reamer and try to clean up the throats on the two rifles. shoot them both and hope one of them will shoot then rebarrel the other to 17 Fireball like i planed other wise i will have to rebarrel both. What realy makes me mad is i have purchesed 4 remingtons in the past year and a hafe a 40xb i love a .375 gun a 700 sps 270wsm that you had to pry the empemty off the bolt face that i sent to ther minnesota repair center when the rifle came back to me the bolt face locked like a bever worked on it. and now two bad xr100 i will no longer buy remington

VarmintGuy
03-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Canon30: Can't blame you for your decision to nix the Remington folks.
I have bought a double big batch of Remingtons over the years - I am sure at least 140 of them and have as yet to have occassion to send one back for "warranty work"!
Back in 1995 I did get a registered letter from Remington asking me to send back a Model 700 PSS in 223 caliber that "might have a metal part in the trigger housing that was provided by a jobber that was possibly not heat treated properly"!
Thats the closest I have been to sending a Remington back. I hand carried taht amazingly accurate Rifle to a Remington Repair Station and had a new trigger put in.
In fact I am currently shooting 42 centerfires that have the name Remington on the side - and all of them perform just fine!
I am bewildered by YOUR run of bad luck!
I am not saying Remington equals perfection but your batting average for fouled up Remingtons is about .800%!
And that is outrageous.
I sure hope your plan to fix the XR-100's works out for you, as my XR-100 in 223 Remington is just a "barn burner" accuracy wise.
I was just down stairs in my loading room and took the time to un-vault my 3 XR-100's and check their chambers. They all look fine to me and each shoots very well indeed.
Today I am loading for a Remington 700 VSS in 17 Remington caliber - it was a limited edition offering made back in 2,002. It is an all stainless steel Varmint Rifle with a 26" heavy barrel.
It is a very consistent grouper (5 shots at 100 yards) in the 4's!
I even checked its chamber with my Siebert Bore Inspection Tool and it looks A-OK to me as well!
I think Big Green should step up and pay about $100.00 towards your rechambering jobs!
Each of them!
I just bought an XR-100 in 22-250 Remington in early February of this year. It shot the first load I tested in it so well I decided to use that loading!
Maybe I am just "blessed" with the Remingtons I have owned.
Oh and this just came to mind - I do have another Remington 700 in caliber 223 Remington that on occassion does not fully eject the spent cases all the way out of the breech of the action. About one out of six spent cases flicks around and ends up lying backwards on top of the magazine follower or loaded rounds in the magazine! I use this Rifle for Colony Varmints so that is a problem I can live with, and have lived with since it was new.
A "normal" person would have had every right to ask that deficiency be corrected - but again I have lived with it and make do. In fact it keeps me from looking around in the grass and sage for the spent shell casing.
I sure hope your "luck" with Remingtons changes - for the better.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

hkcarbine
03-29-2008, 10:28 PM
Varmint Guy:

I have the .223 and it shoots! Would you be so kind to tell me where I could buy a Siebert Bore Inspection Tool? I called Sinclair, no go. I searched the web and found Siebert optics, but he knows nothing of the tool. Help would be greatly appreciated.

Roger Q.

cannon30
03-30-2008, 10:10 AM
check general discussion (remington xr100 .223) i allso posted it ther seem i am not only one with problem but his will shoot

Stonewall
03-30-2008, 10:44 AM
"Would you be so kind to tell me where I could buy a Siebert Bore Inspection Tool? "

The email address for Wally Siebert is hwsieb@yahoo.com

Glenn:D

double s
03-31-2008, 04:57 PM
i just looked on remingtons web site for new 2008 rifles and it does list the xr-100 on that web page.

double s
03-31-2008, 05:07 PM
2008 rem web site. http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/XR-100_rangemaster.aspe

VarmintGuy
03-31-2008, 05:28 PM
Hkcarbine: Pardon my slow reply I have been busy reloading bullets today.
Someone posted Mr. Sieberts E-mail address and I am sure that will be a good place to start.
Over the past 16 years or so I have bought about 50 of these super handy tools from Mr. Siebert - I have bought them 10 and 12 at a time and that might be the way Mr. Siebert "prefers" to sell them - I'm not sure.
I have sold them all and that was my intention - not to make a profit so much as to enhance our sport.
I have sold many of them to friends and gun trading acquaintances.
I am down to just two right now or I would sell you one.
I keep one in my gun room for bore, crown and chamber inspections of my Rifles and one in my travelling Gunshow gear for inspection of used (and new!) arms as I travel around the country to Gunshops and the aforementioned Gunshows.
I have NEVER once demonstrated the use of this tool to an interested person and had that person NOT buy the tool!
They sell themselves.
Mr. Russ Haydon of Haydons Shooters Supply - Gig Harbor, Washington used to sell these as well.
He's on the web.
Good luck - no luck about it though, if you buy one and don't like it - I will buy it from you! Your satisfaction is guaranteed in that respect.
Enjoy, and remember when you get one, the tool is reversible (they don't come with instructions) - one way it focuses on the chamber, leades of the rifling and first couple inches of the barrel, reverse it and focus on the rifling from about 3 inches down the barrel to 8 or 10 inches down the barrel.
AND it works from the muzzle end as well although this takes either three hands or a nice Rifle vise.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy
03-31-2008, 05:37 PM
Double s: Try this link:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/XR-100_rangemaster.asp

Good luck.
I am not sure why the XR-100 is still on the online version of Remingtons 2,008 catalog - it just is.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

hkcarbine
03-31-2008, 10:45 PM
Varmit guy:

Thanks a bunch for the info. I've described the scope to several of my shooting friends and am sure I could do a group buy. I'm in Taiwan for several more months, but will order when returning. I love that xr-100. The first time I shot it in HBR, factory class, I won first place. Mine is .223. I originally bought to make a .20 Varton, necked down .221FB. Glad I shot it first.

Take care and shoot well. I'm normally in sin city, Las Vegas.
HKcarbine

Roger rodbolt
04-01-2008, 01:07 AM
I think something is strange regarding Remington not being able to re-barrel a XR-100, because they are discontinued..........? The XR-100 and 700 use the same barrel. My first .204Ruger was built from a very old ADL 700 in .222 using a new/take off barrel from a XR-100. The XR was just released and I got the take off, 204 barrel. Screwed it on my action, the headspace was .005 long (well within Remington spec's) but I chucked the barrel in my lathe, turned .005 off the shoulder and viola, had a great shooting rifle. Call Remington back they could be short on actions but definitely not barrels.

VarmintGuy
04-01-2008, 01:50 AM
Rodger Rodbolt: You answered the question I had - the XR-100 and the 700 have the same barrel threads then.
Good to know.
I just hate to see Cannon30 get the "brush off" from Remington!
I would have expected more from them!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

cannon30
04-01-2008, 12:16 PM
I asked remington that the first time i called them they sad they can not rebarrel only replace barrel-action assemblies from parts stock an they have none in stock but if worst comes to worst I will order a .223 Remington 700 Match Grade Barrel pre-threaded and short-chambered from Midway if they are the same but i will no longer buy Remington they got me 3 times in a row i think that is to much.

Talon1959
04-01-2008, 01:47 PM
I find it sad that Remington is treating you this way. :(

cannon30
04-02-2008, 09:51 AM
I have an idea how about every one calling 1-800-243-9700 and go to repairs and tell them to do the right thing on repair ticket RE00140163

Thank You
Gerald

Craiger5658
04-04-2008, 02:58 PM
VarmintGuy:

I added some lead strap decoy weights that are 1 pound each (or at least that's what I remember them being). I had to cut one of them to fit pieces of it in there, but I got the better part of two of them in. Used epoxy instead of bedding compound, not sure why though. Sure makes the stock more stable. I will eventually do pillars and bedding after this year's squirrel blast in a couple of weeks. We'll see how much that helps. Will also have one of my buddies at the blast get the trigger down to something decent (the 40x trigger leaves a little to be desired) or I'll replace it with a Jewell. Damn find gun though. I was considering going to maybe the 20 Vartarg when I shoot this barrel off and keeping the LRPV in .204. I'd probably go with a heavier profile barrel for the XR to help keep it down.

Have you played with the Vartarg at all? I haven't shot the XR at anything past 100 yard paper target, so hopefully, I can see the results of impacts at longer ranges. Especially those pesky little digger squirrels! Just picked up a set of Redding competition dies for the .204 so this should also help tighten up my groups. Going to the squirrel fields this year with both .204's, my 700 in .223, and my 4" S&W 617 with a new C-More sight (you can run, but....)

I've also been considering putting together a stable of Fireball guns: .221, .20, and .17 for a possible future squirrel battery. So many guns, so little time......

hkcarbine
04-04-2008, 10:10 PM
Varmit guy, I haven't played with Vartog yet. I had a .20Br based on Rem 660 which was a real shooter. I got that thing up to 4400fps with Sierra 32s. Backed down to 4200fps. I really like the idea of the vartog. Should be able to easily see shots with virtually no recoil. I'm hoping to find another XR-100, if not that maybe a Stiller Rem clone. The XR is the only rifle that I woudn't have to true the action, based on yours and mine experience. I have a Stiller Rattler for my HBR which is a work of art. RBLP. Have a good varmit season. I was born and raised in Idaho and really miss the wild west!

HKcarbine

Craiger5658
04-11-2008, 05:37 PM
Since I'm kind of a .20 cal fan for varmints, did anyone read the article in the most recent issue of PS about the 5/35 SMc? Very intriguing article about the ballistics of this completely new cartridge. It even said the Savage Custom Shop was turning out barrels in this caliber. It's supposed to launch 32 grain bullets at something like (can't remember exactly) 4400fps+ and 40 grainers at 4150 or so!!! All with low pressure, less perceived recoil, longer barrel life, and less powder.

I've only got three things to say about that: Sign me up!

VarmintGuy
04-14-2008, 01:13 PM
Hkcarbine: Pardon my slow reply I got called out of Montana to do a body guard thing out on the left coast and just got home late last night.
I did see two NIB Remington XR-100's at the Sportsmans Warehouse store in Federal Way, Washington while I was out there late last week!
One was in 223 and the other was in 22-250 Remington.
I had just bought a Remington 40X that I came across or I would have been a player for one of those XR-100's!

Craiger5658: I have as yet not had anything to do with a 20 Tactical! I have friends with them and they rave about them!
Good for savage and the barreling thing in that new caliber!
That sounds like a nifty caliber!
I will try to find that issue and read up on it.
More velocity though, usually means more powder and more barrel heat (wear!) in a given caliber???
I am loading like mad today as my recent absence was unexpected and came right in the middle of my planned reloading regimen.
The good news is in a week or two I wll have some more "mad money"!

Long live the 20 cals.!

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

darin hertzberg
12-06-2009, 12:08 AM
Hi my names is darin, and ijust bought a new xr 100 rifle

darin hertzberg
12-06-2009, 12:11 AM
:cool:
Hi my names is darin, and ijust bought a new xr 100 rifle

VarmintGuy
12-06-2009, 12:37 PM
Darin hertzberg: Yes I have just this week been made aware that several of the Sportsmans Warehouse type stores are clearing these Rifles out at $600.00!
They are selling what is left and I am sure they are not newly manufactured although I wish they were.
My friends have bought two of them this week.
The few remaining Rifles are spread out from Lacey, Washington to Bozeman, Montana and about one Rifle per store.
I wish I had some mad money I would buy another 204 XR-100!
What caliber is yours?
Best of luck with it.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy
12-06-2009, 09:36 PM
Darin hertzberg; Upon re-talking with my friends on the coast the actual asking price of the XR-100's was/is $605.00!
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

darin hertzberg
12-06-2009, 10:21 PM
I paid 749.00 in candaian dollars for my xr 100

darin hertzberg
12-06-2009, 10:24 PM
I love that xr 100 rem in 223. I shot .625 group with factory ammo

darin hertzberg
12-06-2009, 10:28 PM
With a little glass bedding it will shoot better.

darin hertzberg
12-06-2009, 10:30 PM
Im going to be using h 322 and 52grain sierria bullet match.

tlo
12-07-2009, 05:33 PM
Im going to be using h 322 and 52grain sierria bullet match.

Try VV N-133 with Bart's or Gentner's or Zia's match bullets.

Tom

VarmintGuy
12-08-2009, 06:51 PM
Darin hertzberg: My XR-100 in 223 Remington just loves the following load:

LaPua 223 brass
Federal 205 M (match) primers
Berger 52 grain MEF bullets
H 335 powder

I am not sure if I made mention of this Rifles performance before (in this thread) but with a Leupold 8.5x25 variable scope and no bedding or other re-working this Rifle produced for me the BEST 5 shot group at 100 yards I have ever shot with a factory (non-40X type) Rifle!
And, I have been shooting groups for 1/2 century now!
Anyway that best group with this Rifle, to date, measured .121" (again 5 shots at 100 yards)!
This Rifle just flat shoots way better than what an all factory stock Rifle should shoot!
By the way I only shoot for group and for load testing on "dead calm" days anymore.
To this day I can not fathom why or what made the fine folks at Remington decide to discontinue this handsome and functional Rifle?
I hope you enjoy your XR-100 as much as I do mine!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Doug Kennedy
12-08-2009, 09:41 PM
I have 3 of the XR100s 1 in 204,223 and 22-250. They do shoot very well and look nice also. The 204 and the 22-250 haven't been shot awhole lot. My 223 loves a max load of n133 and a 53 gr sierra match with F205 primers. My 2nd best load is a max load of n135 and a 55 gr nosler bt

What little i've shot my 204 it seems to like H335 and a sierra 32 grain bullet.
My 22-250 likes the old stand by load of H380 and a 55 gr nosler bt. I think my 22-250 will shoot right with my 223.

VarmintGuy
12-08-2009, 10:14 PM
Doug Kennedy: The same situation as yours exists with my XR-100 in caliber 22-250 Remington.
I have shot it at the range very little.
One reason is because it shot the first loading I tried in it rather well!
I specifically wanted to shoot the Berger 52 grain MEF Varmint bullets in it and with that bullet I tried Varget powder and Federal 210M (match) primers and presto it was shooting just at and just under .500" for 5 shots at 100 yards.
The XR-100's best group to date has been .397"!
And I am more than happy and content with that level of accuracy - so no more load development for it is planned.
Give the 52 grain Bergers a try in your XR-100 - I think they will impress you.
I also have a Leupold 8.5x25 variable scope on this one.
I am glad you are enjoying the XR-100's also.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

darin hertzberg
12-08-2009, 11:14 PM
Thanks varmint guy.but i have plenty of h 322 and plenty of br4 primers and plenty of 205 match primers and plenty of sierria match king 52 grain.and i also shoot for groups.too

darin hertzberg
12-09-2009, 01:07 AM
Tomorrow im also going to be getting my xr 100 beddit and trigger set to

darin hertzberg
12-09-2009, 01:09 AM
It seems the xr 100 remington is the toast of the town

jackie schmidt
12-09-2009, 03:12 PM
I don't guess anybody ever answered your Question.

There are three different action lengths in the series that traces it's roots back to the 721-722.

There is the standard long action, the standard short action, (which includes the 40x), and the (for lack of a better term), the super short, which includes the old 600-660 series, the XP-100, the model 7, and the XR-100. The best way to quickly identify a super shorty is the single scope mounting screw in the rear. The long and standard short have duel screws front and back.

In fact, they all share the same "three rings of steel" barrel tenon. Within manufacturing tolerances, you can just about interchange any of the barrels.

A few years ago, I went to Wall Mart and bought one of those cheap "tupperware" stocked Remingtons in 308 to rob the action off of. A friend of my sons had a old Remington ADL in 243 that had water get in the barrel and rust it. We took that brand new 308 barrel, screwed it onto the 30+ year old 700, and it worked fine...........jackie

mbp
12-09-2009, 03:28 PM
a few handfulls of recoil lugs---makes it really easy to switch em out when you got just the right thickness of lug---most times the lettering isn't indexed correctly. AND this brings a question up.....Do the guys at the factory have an assortment of lug thickness to use? surely they don't adjust headspace on a lathe?? I assume this is why I have several lugs differing in thickness?? They must stamp the letters after assembly????

Hippy
12-09-2009, 03:32 PM
I was told years ago that Remington used the bolts to determine headspace. In other words they changed bolts until the headspace was correct, Then they scribed the serial # on the bolt.:)

Jim

mbp
12-09-2009, 04:11 PM
even thought about it that way---- they could solder different length lug/bolt face assemblies to the bolts and just have a bin with different lengths. Always two ways to do the skinning--my dad always preferred the most difficult or labor intensive method to any task.

jackie schmidt
12-09-2009, 04:19 PM
We didn't care where the lettering, or the sight screws came out. The Rifle had a scope. I just used the same recoil lug. Worked just fine. He
was happy he got a brand new barrel for nothing.

And before everybody jumps all over me, we checked it with a 243-308 headspace gage. Don't do this unless you know what you are doing.........jackie

cassidy
12-09-2009, 04:20 PM
My understanding from my dealer is that Remington has now droped the Model Seven:eek:

mbp
12-09-2009, 04:36 PM
I did not mean to sound sarcastic. I have two with the letters in the wrong spot--one a horse fell on and it was really bent and another that was left in a feed room and got really rusted. I don't care about the letters either. It really does help to have an assortment of lugs----I still would like to know how rem. does it if anyone knows for sure???? thanks marc

jackie schmidt
12-09-2009, 10:09 PM
Not just Remington, but every mass production manufacturer.

I wish I had 10 remington bolts, so I could check the dimension on each from the back of the luggs to the face of the bolt. I have a gut feeling that they would all be within a couple of thousanths of each other, or within the manufacturing tolerances set forth by the build specs.

The difference between a go and no go gage is pretty generous. Maybe they are able to hold all of the criticle dimensions on thye various pieces close enough so that when the parts are assembled, they fall within that range.

Be nice if someone from Remington, Winchester, etc could log on and say what the assembly procedures are.........jackie

mbp
12-10-2009, 10:27 AM
I agree, the bolts are pretty close. The recoil lugs I have all vary quite a bit---I could not tell you what they came off of( 700,722,721,78 sportsman,40x) so I am inclined to think maybe they headspace with different lug thickness??? I also wish someone could tell me how the do it. They could hold everything close enough to work out, I haven't thought about that either, seems logical, but why are there different thickness lugs?--- marc

Dennis Sorensen
12-10-2009, 11:59 AM
I don't believe Remington lugs are made in different thicknesses... they are all "about" the same for being stamped out of a sheet of steel.

I don't think they make their bolts heads in different lengths either. Bolts are close to each other in specs, only out small differences due to manufacturing tolerances.

I suspect they finish chambering (headspace) with the barrel installed on the action. They do headspace each barreled action to the specific bolt during assembly and I suspect any drilling and tapping and any print stamping is done on an otherwise finished barreled action.

mbp
12-10-2009, 01:55 PM
I just measured 8 lugs about+/- 1 thsds 0.187 to 0.192 (depending upon where you measure them) I was thinking there was more spread on them. they are all within 5 thsds. I am still wondering if this is intentional since the lugs measure everywhere in between the above #'s. marc

Dennis Sorensen
12-10-2009, 01:58 PM
I think that is a normal spread for the cheapest bulk 3/16 flat stock you can buy...

mbp
12-10-2009, 03:53 PM
well put.

langenc
12-10-2009, 06:11 PM
I suspect the reason is ===lack of sales.

Now that I think of it I dont ever recall seeing one in a case at a gun shop.
Probably why sales are down.

expiper
12-10-2009, 11:25 PM
see the belt sander marks ....that is how they set the headspace....Roger

jackie schmidt
12-12-2009, 12:52 AM
Probably explains why they are often so out of square.............jackie

Rustystud
12-12-2009, 09:46 AM
If you missed something we are in two wars right now. Big Green has been bought by a parent company who is all about making money.

The civilian market is shrinking every year.

The back bone of Big green the model 700, model 870, and formerly the 1100 have been surpassed by better, more reliable and in some cases less expensive products.

Big Green has seen how the only growing civilian market was the Black rifle market. They jumped on the band wagon with both feet.

For the civilian who wants a top end model 700 the custom clone maker have taken that market.

For the civilian who is looking for a less expensive hunting rifle Savage has about taken up that market.

For those wanting as mid range priced target center fire Savage has taken that market too.

I hear Remington is going to market a handgun at the shot show. That is a market they have been out of for 75 years. I fee sure they will have a difficult time with Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Sig, H&K, Springfield, Browning, and a list of others already competing for that market.

In the business world success follows the money.

History will tell us the end of the Big Green Story.

Nat Lambeth

M.D.Spencer
12-13-2009, 07:51 PM
even thought about it that way---- they could solder different length lug/bolt face assemblies to the bolts and just have a bin with different lengths. Always two ways to do the skinning--my dad always preferred the most difficult or labor intensive method to any task.

They do that with their Semi-Auto... mark

darin hertzberg
12-15-2009, 12:07 AM
I just got my brand new xr 100 glass bedit i cant wait to try it out.