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View Full Version : .22-250 group size vs. .222 rem.



paul.222
01-17-2008, 10:48 PM
I've got a question again fellas, I've been trying to figure out why my .222 struggles to shoot 3/4 in. groups (my best is like .668) with the norm being like 1 in. to an 1 1/2. I think I may have stumbled onto one problem with my neck tension being to light. I've always heard and read how accurate the .222 rem is, but my 22-250 will out shoot it easy. Problem is the 22-250 weighs like 8 1/2 or 9 lbs. It's a savage mod. 12 bvss or whatever with the 26" stainless heavy fluted barrel and accu-trigger, I just measured 5 of my groups from the savage and they are .320, .415, .448, .571, and .577 these were my reloads using w-760 powder and sierra 52 gr. HPBT's. They are 5 shot groups at 100 yards! Is it reasonable to think I can get my T/C Encore .222 with a light 24" barrel @ like 7 lbs. by the way, (much easier to walk and fox hunt with) down to the half in. range. Or am I comparing apples to oranges? Should I be happy if I get under an inch? Is the .222 really a surefire half inch round?

Many Thanks
Paul

caroby
01-17-2008, 11:08 PM
Is the .222 really a surefire half inch round?

Oh good Lord YES...!

Not sure why the TC Carbine .222 is struggling to go under 1 MOA...
But if ya can get Foxes "cleanly" I wouldn't worry.

Your BVSS is shoot'n nice.

Might want to check out the Factory/Hybrid forum here for T/C help.
cale

paul75167
01-17-2008, 11:13 PM
I've got a question again fellas, I've been trying to figure out why my .222 struggles to shoot 3/4 in. groups (my best is like .668) with the norm being like 1 in. to an 1 1/2. I think I may have stumbled onto one problem with my neck tension being to light. I've always heard and read how accurate the .222 rem is, but my 22-250 will out shoot it easy. Problem is the 22-250 weighs like 8 1/2 or 9 lbs. It's a savage mod. 12 bvss or whatever with the 26" stainless heavy fluted barrel and accu-trigger, I just measured 5 of my groups from the savage and they are .320, .415, .448, .571, and .577 these were my reloads using w-760 powder and sierra 52 gr. HPBT's. They are 5 shot groups at 100 yards! Is it reasonable to think I can get my T/C Encore .222 with a light 24" barrel @ like 7 lbs. by the way, (much easier to walk and fox hunt with) down to the half in. range. Or am I comparing apples to oranges? Should I be happy if I get under an inch? Is the .222 really a surefire half inch round?

Many Thanks
Paul

Paul, a well built and tuned 222 Rem will shoot 3/8 to 1/2 depending upon action, barrel, stock, scope and assembly. A world record .009 group was shot with a custom rifle chambered in 222.

I find it hard to believe you would try comparing the accuracy of a Savage bolt action rifle to a top break pistol action with a 24" barrel.

Paul

paul.222
01-17-2008, 11:39 PM
Paul, a well built and tuned 222 Rem will shoot 3/8 to 1/2 depending upon action, barrel, stock, scope and assembly. A world record .009 group was shot with a custom rifle chambered in 222.

I find it hard to believe you would try comparing the accuracy of a Savage bolt action rifle to a top break pistol action with a 24" barrel.

Paul

I'm not trying to say it should shoot with the 22-250, I'm just asking if a 1 " group from a T/C Encore in .222 is acceptable. The trigger leaves alot to be desired at 5 lbs. I'm quite sure trimming that down some would help! My Savage trigger is right on 2 lbs. Can a T/C trigger be worked down to say 3 1/2 lbs. I know that's nothing like your guys 7 oz. or whatever triggers but I need to keep it safe for hunting. I'm just wondering if 3/4 of an inch is feasible or am I trying to push a rope? One other question, I know nothing about benchrest competition, but how can a bullet that measures .224 shoot a .009 in. group?
Paul

Wilbur
01-18-2008, 12:04 AM
You may gain a little bit fooling around with it but prolly not much. It's not a disgrace as it is.

The groups are measured center to center of the farthest apart bullet holes. If two .224 holes just touched, the two shot group would measure .224.

alinwa
01-18-2008, 01:34 AM
Here's what that 222 group looked like, 5 shots @ 100yds.


( http://www.benchrest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=981&d=1079795084 )


al

Larry Elliott
01-18-2008, 12:17 PM
The .222 can be an accurate cartridge in an accurate rifle, but I've got a little CZ .222 that gave me all kinds of grief before I got it to shooting at least passably- 5/8" to 3/4" for five. On the other hand I've seen other live varmint .222's shoot 3/8" five shot groups with such regularity that it was almost boring.

paul.222
01-18-2008, 02:05 PM
You may gain a little bit fooling around with it but prolly not much. It's not a disgrace as it is.

The groups are measured center to center of the farthest apart bullet holes. If two .224 holes just touched, the two shot group would measure .224.

Oh ok I get it, dumb question I guess, but I'm still learning! Thanks for all the help fellas!

rusty dog
01-18-2008, 04:04 PM
Paul trie 4198 18.5 GR and a flat base bullet
Bill T:)

f d shuster
01-18-2008, 05:18 PM
Paul .222: You did not say what bullet weight you're using in the .222. Check your barrel rate-of-twist. I recently picked up another old Sako Vixen,(222 Mag) thinking it was a 1-14: 50 gr. were all over the paper @ 200 yd. Took a twist measurement & discovered the original barrel (Bofors steel) is a 1-16. Switched to 40 gr. V-max and am averaging under 1/2 moa w/ 5 shots. Accuracy load for my .222s' has been 22.2 grs. H322 w/ 50 gr. V-Max, seated .020" off, ( a recommended Hodgdon load). Has been consistant over the years. My .222s' come very close to my 6ppc & 6br group sizes: the .222 will shoot!

f d shuster
01-18-2008, 06:05 PM
Paul.222: Yes, I would agree with the above, you may be comparing "apples to oranges". It would be like me comparing a recently built Shilen barreled Ruger#1 (.223) to any of my bench & varmint bolt-actions.

rhaney2
01-18-2008, 06:17 PM
I'm not trying to say it should shoot with the 22-250, I'm just asking if a 1 " group from a T/C Encore in .222 is acceptable. The trigger leaves alot to be desired at 5 lbs. I'm quite sure trimming that down some would help! My Savage trigger is right on 2 lbs. Can a T/C trigger be worked down to say 3 1/2 lbs. I know that's nothing like your guys 7 oz. or whatever triggers but I need to keep it safe for hunting. I'm just wondering if 3/4 of an inch is feasible or am I trying to push a rope? One other question, I know nothing about benchrest competition, but how can a bullet that measures .224 shoot a .009 in. group?
Paul

The first shot is free,it;s how much you open up that bullet hole with the next 4 shots.

Greyfox
01-18-2008, 06:57 PM
Lots of variables here. Don't know anything about your bench technique with the TC. It's a lot different than a bolt action. The Encore trigger will go well under 1 lb. You might cruise over to Mike Bellm's website for details. bellmtcs.com I have two and both are around 10oz. I've done trigger jobs for a couple of friends and with the correct spring 1 lb is no challenge.

Also, if you're not familiar with TC bench techniques, you're probably not familiar with the optimum reloading procedues for a break open action. Again, see Mike Bellm's site. I've never owned a TC that wouldn't shoot well under 1 MOA, and I've owned a lot. Don't give up on it, just get educated.

Rick