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Kathy
01-15-2008, 05:00 PM
Friend Brad541:

Brad, I need your help "AGAIN"......

Here's what I'm up against.....

Can you go to the thread, on this centerfire forum, started by "Lynn", titled " Relaxing triggers from Shilen" then take the post by "Stiller", which is post #71and start a new thread titled " Answer to Stiller, Calfee"

And Brad, we need this to be posted on the Rimfire forum, the Centerfire forum, the 1,000 yard forum and the F Class forum.... All at the same time?

Friend Brad, if this can not be done without you spending a bunch of time.......DO NOT DO IT.....do not do this if you have to post on every forum, one at a time....Please....

Brad, if you can't do this easy, don't do it........I've taken up too much of your valuable time already.

Your friend, Bill Calfee PS...if this can't be done, I fully understand.

stiller
01-15-2008, 11:18 PM
answer it.

Kathy
01-16-2008, 04:05 PM
Friend Stiller:

My gut tells me the floating bolt head will solve the problem of keeping both locking lugs equally loaded on their seats, in the action, until ignition takes place. Will this solve the "relaxing" problems caused by the triggers we use, with angled engagement surfaces, that I have written about these last few years........no, not completely.

I have an article in the works for Precision Shooting Magazine on this subject. This is why I did not respond when this came up some time ago.

But, I can say this........I made a fixture that allows me to check, very quickly and accurately, the firing pin penetration depth, in the rim of a case, as soon as it is fired.

With a non-relaxing trigger, keeping the sear connector (transfer bar) and the cocking piece engagement surfaces clean and dry, there will always be one to three penetrations out of every ten, that vary in depth.

Using a non-relaxing trigger, if I put grease, or bullet wax, or a coat of Hoppe's, or the combustion bi-products from the bore, on the engagement surfaces of the cocking piece and the sear connector, I will get five or six different depth readings in evey ten shots......with live cases or once fired cases.......

If I install my manual re-set, relaxing trigger, I can put grease, wax, dirt, cleaning solvent or run the engagement surfaces completely clean, and dry, and out of every ten shots there will be absolutely no variation in the depth of penetration, of the firing pin, in the case rim......none!

The floating head, I think, will solve part of the problem....

An aside now: ARA shooters will fully understand the implications of what I'm going to say now.

I have installed, during the last year, my manual re-set, relaxing triggers in several of my XP-100 22 rimfire conversions.....I use the original safety, modified, as the manual re-set lever.......Every single one of those pistols have fired, in competition, ARA targets of 2400 or better, every one!

Prior to last year, to the best of my knowledge, only one target of 2400 or greater, had ever been fired with one.

Does my manual re-set, relaxing trigger work? I believe the record is speaking for itself.

Friend Stiller, relaxed triggers are coming......so I want to say one other thing.
Ed Shilen of Shilen, Inc. is the only company, or person, I have given the rights to, to produce a relaxing trigger, manual re-set or otherwise.

Your friend, Bill Calfee

Joe Friedrich
01-16-2008, 08:41 PM
Bill, could one feel a very minute difference in the trigger with a non-relaxed trigger when firing a round?

Joe

Kent Owens
01-16-2008, 09:21 PM
Friend Bill,
Do you think the reason for the variation in firing pin fall is to be attributed to drag on the spring loaded Remington/Jewell pattern trigger sear as it overrides the sear as the cocking piece falls. As you know, the cocking piece has to push the spring loaded sear down and out of the way as it falls.
Have you experimented with a lighter weight sear spring in the trigger. I think the Jewell has a spring made from .025 spring wire, maybe less tension in the spring, or just enough tension to reset the trigger would be an improvement on some of the rimfire actions with weak firing pin springs. As you say, just thinking out loud. Keep up the good work, and keep thinking! It's interesting stuff, for sure.

stiller
01-17-2008, 08:39 AM
kent is exactly right on the reasons for the difference there. The solution may be the completely unloaded sear bar. I am curious how much difference the hit energy makes in a CF primer though. Joe Kubon did an experiment with different drop falls and spring weights and determined when a certain amount of energy was there, it no longer mattered if you added more.

Kathy
01-17-2008, 12:04 PM
Friend Stiller:

I qoute from you my friend:

"The solution may be the completely unloaded sear bar."

My friend, why do you think my relaxing trigger must be re-set manually?

Friends Joe and Kent, and anyone else who may want to post questions about my manual re-set, relaxed triggers.....most questions about them I have already answered in past issues of Precision Shooting Magazine. I have an up-coming article to address, in detail, the experiment I briefly discussed above, in my response to Friend Stiller.

MY FRIENDS, I HAVE AN ANOUNCEMENT TO MAKE:

I have two Calfee/Turbo, Spec Rifles under construction. I have decided that both of these Spec Rifles will come equipped with a Manually Re-set, Relaxed Trigger.

My XP Pistols so equipped, have exceeded all of my expectations, so it's time to start incorporating them into my Spec Rifles.

Your friend, Bill Calfee

stiller
01-17-2008, 12:51 PM
i agree that your relaxed trigger is the solution to not having any difference in the sliding motion of the firing assembly. any load on it can vary and probably will. The smaller the load however, the less effect and the less variance. In my own mind, i feel that a small preload on the sear is not detrimental. How small is the key. The jewell has quite a lot as does the timney. As a trigger mfr, they want to make damn sure it sets for liability concerns. If you have a 20 lb spring, my gut feel is that any sliding friction less then a few lbs probably doesnt matter. Wade at shilen has a pretty fancy trigger tester, it may be used to measure all this at the same time. You can measure the sliding friction by removing the spring and pushing on the pin with a scale. Once the initial .030 or so engagement is gone, the continuous slide is the number of interest. Personally I doubt we will see all benchrest rifles with a manal reset trigger, but I have been wrong once before :D

Kent Owens
01-17-2008, 01:29 PM
Bill,
I have shot DJ's pistol once with the manually reset trigger and after a few shots it was second nature to reset it. Not a problem at all. That thing shoots GOOD! I can definitely see the advantage to have a drop away sear to prevent drag on the cocking piece, especially on some of the rimfire actions. I'd bet it'd make a signigigant difference in one action in particular. I think one of the reasons the Kimber actioned RF sporter of mine works so well is the 90 degree sear, and of course a killer barrel and stock. When the trigger is pulled that thing releases the cocking piece like an arrow from a bow, no drag. I look forward to reading your PS articles, as always.