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goodgrouper
01-09-2008, 12:34 AM
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The covers for Precision Shooting for the 2007 year were absolutely horrible in my opinion. NOT ONE GUN I would consider a precision instrument ever graced the cover of the magazine. Articles were average with some above average for sure but the covers stunk!
I actually had someone at work glance at my magazine and ask if that double barreled SHOTGUN was considered a precision shooter! I told her no and I didn't know why this magazine can't get a good cover lately.

Anyone else notice that there wasn't one BR rig or F-class rifle displayed this year? Just a bunch of african safari rifles, old falling blocks, and I think I even saw a bloody muzzlestuffer! Yeah, precision of 2 moa! Come on Dave B, let's see if we can get a real shooter on the cover for 2008! I've got a few pics of some fancy boomsticks if you need them as well as many here probably do as well.
__________________

Dusty Stevens
01-09-2008, 01:25 AM
the last one I got had some kind of buffalo gun on it. I knew it was going down quick

Rob Carnell
01-09-2008, 02:54 AM
I stopped my subscription after the issue with "How to make a rattlesnake hatband".

Rob Carnell
Sydney, Australia

Rustystud
01-09-2008, 07:20 AM
I had over twenty plus years of PS magazines and gave them to a friend. My Subscription expired two years ago. Having a shooting related specialty item I thought about running a year long add and submitting and article to PS. Like an idiot I renewed my subscrition. I then contacted Dave and he was so gruff and full of himself that I canned the entire idea. My subscrition expired in September 07 and I have not looked back. The inrternet, web pages, and electronic media have passed poor Dave by. I believe Benchrest Central, Accurate Shooter/6mmBR, Long Range dot com, Long Range Hunting dot com, Accurate Reloading, and every manufacture, vendor and gunsmith having a web site has taken the market from PS. I wish Dave many years of happiness in his retirement.

Rustystud

jackie schmidt
01-09-2008, 08:19 AM
I get it free with my IBS Memebership, so I glance through it to see if there is anything that is of interest. There are some good articles in PS, just not for Benchrest Shooters.
I try to read Calfee's articles, but he is in dire need of a phantom writer. He has some great ideas, but it is darned near painful trying to decipher them from that rambling prose. Community Colleges offer freshman composition courses that would be a great help.
What we have to remember is that what we discuss on this, and on a few other Forums, is really of interest to a small segment of the shooting world. No magazine could survive with the limited number of Benchrest Shooters as their only subscribers. I joke about a web site named "bang-away.com", but if such a site did exist, it would probably have 100 times the viewership as we have.
The fact is, Forums such as this are a much better vehicle for the exchange of ideas that are highly technicle. How many times have you read an article in a Magazine, and thought, "he is full lof dog dooky". But you have no means of expressing your thoughts, other than a letter to the editor that might be printed 6 months from now. On the Net, in Forums such as this, ideas can be discussed, and challenged, in no more time than it takes to hit the submit key. And, as long as we are Gentlemen and remember that our writing reflects our character, information can flow freely.
My older brother is starting to take a real interest in shooting. He has watched me for years, but guess what he just bought??. A AR-15, IN 6.8 SPC. He is also interested in something called a "50 Beowolf" for another AR Platform. That is about as far from what I do as you can get, and still go "bang".........jackie

GS Arizona
01-09-2008, 08:40 AM
I notice that the poster initiating this thread didn't have the courtesy to us to use his name. That's one big difference between the internet and PS or any magazine - in the magazine you know who is responsible for what's written and you can adress him by name. It always smells fishy to me when someone carps anonymously.

I like the PS covers, they remind me of the covers of the American Rifleman from the 1950's and 1960's before it became an advertising and fund-raising rag. Those old rifle are good looking and I'll never own one so it's nice to see them - they're window dressing, the substance is inside.

As for the articles themselves, Jackie is exactly right (as always) in saying that coverage has to be fairly broad for the magazine to survive and it is through the articles in there that many new people become interested in accuracy shooting. Some of those people will find their way to Benchrest or other accuracy disiplines, some will not, however, all will support our industry through the purchase of good equipment and by becoming supporters/promoters of shooting sports. Finally, as has been said many times, how about writing an article and submitting it? I've done it many times, covering topics in my area of interest (Highpower) and it's very gratifying to have other shooters tell me that the article was useful to them.

ReedG
01-09-2008, 08:57 AM
One thing about firearms as a hobby, there certainly is something for everybody. I spend lots of time at our club shooting range as it is the only place I shoot. Some days I go there at 8 a.m., set up the loading equipment, and load and shoot two or three rifles until 4:30 or 5:00. Trust me, when one spends that much time at a shooting range you will "see some things".

I try not to diss or put down another man's choices, I try to answer all the questions about "what are you doing?" and "you mean you're just shooting holes in targets". I even bought me an AR-15 last summer, thinking I might shoot with the High Power boys for a little fun. After one day at the range with it, I sold it and won't do that again.

For me, the limit is black powder. Just cannot grasp that someone would choose to shoot a firearm that uses that stinking, dirty stuff. Around here, they're real popular because we have a special deer season for them, plus they're the only thing "felons" can use because they are not classified as firearms.

I have friends who own dozens of shotguns and no rifles. I've never owned a shotgun. I encourage them to get out and shoot and have fun, because that's what it's all about. But it doesn't mean we all have to do the same thing.

I think those of us interested in or addicted to "precision shooting" taken to the level of benchrest, F-class, long-range, etc., are a very small minority in the firearms business. But when you look at the number of custom actions, barrels, stocks, etc. sold every year then we must be a pretty affluent minority. I have friends who have reloaded with me since back in the '60s and when I tell them about expanding and turning necks, uniforming primer pockets, etc., they look at me quizzically and say "you're kidding, right?".

The Precision Shooting magazine situation is curious. I think most of its subscribers come from those who join IBS and get it as part of their membership, or at least are attracted by the name. That would seem to indicate they are a benchrest-oriented group with interests to match. Maybe there just aren't enough "accurate rifle" stories around to use, I don't know, but muzzleloaders, double rifles, and collector military rifles -- though sometimes interesting to read about -- are not what I expected to find in PS.

Jackie, you should write up some of your "experiments" from past posts, the stuff you've done with scopes is very interesting, your testing with the 6 BR was great, etc., etc., and if all those posts were put together into articles with a couple pictures it would be great info.

Gene could certainly have an interesting series on his experiences in the tunnel, the work with the "Beggs" cartridges, no-turn necks, etc., all great reading.

mbp
01-09-2008, 09:31 AM
My gunsmith and I had these same feelings. We both called after the June muzzle loader debauchery. They followed up with more of the same.

goodgrouper
01-09-2008, 09:44 AM
I notice that the poster initiating this thread didn't have the courtesy to us to use his name. That's one big difference between the internet and PS or any magazine - in the magazine you know who is responsible for what's written and you can adress him by name. It always smells fishy to me when someone carps anonymously.
.


German,
You obviously need lessons in courtesy yourself. This media is called the internet and there are people who surprisingly want to keep security a priority in a world of identity snoops. If this means in your mind that what I or others type is any less meaningful then you are going to miss out on a lot of internet information. Remember, this is an open forum. Anyone anywhere can read what we say. This is not a private letter or conversation by any stretch of the imagination. How can you fault someone who wants to take precautions? If you must know who I am, send me an email and I'll be glad to introduce myself. Or maybe I will come find you and introduce myself if you plan on going to the cactus this year.

Anyway, back to the covers. It sounds like there were more guys who thought the covers were not representative of what the content of the magazine is. There are certainly places for "pretty" hunting guns, but there are thousands of other magazines that cater to those guns. PS was supposed to be different.
Cheers.

Stonewall
01-09-2008, 02:11 PM
Look at "Precision Shooting" going back to the 1960's .
Covers with L.E. Wilson for example.

This was the magazine that I read first about Chet Brown and Lee Six making fiberglass Benchrest stocks . A lot of these magazines are filled away in the basement - treasures.

Now I pile them up for when I have nothing else to read.

An electronic version of Precision Shooting that you could download and read would probably sell quite well at this time.


Send a few articles in Jackie -then we will see what happens.

Glenn:D

J. Valentine
01-09-2008, 02:46 PM
I stopped my subscription after the issue with "How to make a rattlesnake hatband".

Rob Carnell
Sydney, Australia
I know what you are saying Rob , I decided to not renew after reading "Canyon Shooting " A guy walking around a dry gultch shooting at rocks and lumlps of clay. I could not believe my eyes.
I guess this is what happens when you constantly nockback good writers . Also when advertising starts to expand the size of an article gets smaller and smaller to the point that they drop the big technical article to run some piece that fits the space left .
Advertising goes in first then they fit in the articles.

jackie schmidt
01-09-2008, 03:29 PM
A few years back, I did write a detailed article about single point neck turning cases in an Engine Lathe. I was encouraged to contact the Editor of PS and see if he was interested in publishing it. I did just that. But the person on the other end of the phone was one of the more obnoxious persons I had ever talked with. Sort of a "OK, you have 15 seconds, I would rather be doing something else, what have you got". I have never enjoyed being talked down to, and even though many people in todays World seem to see merit in rude behavior, I find it to be a very undesireable trait.
I gave the article to the NBRSA News, and donated the $75 fee to a good cause.........jackie

Jay, Idaho
01-09-2008, 03:41 PM
The Publisher must be satisfied with the Editor's performance or he would make changes.
I get it because it is the only game in town. Tactical Rifle was a lot better magazine, IMO. The African stories were a lot better than "shooting rocks with my 45-110". Shooter's News was probably better. Did I really say that?

Butch Lambert
01-09-2008, 04:24 PM
I love the covers! Maybe some people need to contribute something. I think it would be very difficult keeping fresh topics every month in the area of experimentation or precision shooting. Calfee is about the only thing going right now beside the front covers.
Butch

Gerry
01-09-2008, 05:02 PM
Yes i see but then you wouldn't even know what those rifles look like.
Maybe I'm sticking up for Dave Brennen. but look at it this way. Where else would you get a history lesson for free/ some of the articles are pretty interesting if your a history buff like Dave.:D
I remember rick Hornbeck discussing on expanding the magazine at the 89 super shoot. It use to be very thin at one time very very thin{only match reports. A few of the editors did put some faces on the cover. MILES HOLLISER< DOC Palmisano, ED JOINER {Who saved the magazine}
And a whole host of others. I bet soon you fellows will get your wish.
It's one heck of a chore putting articles together every month.
you may not agree what id printed in it but it is interesting at times.
The ads to a host of suppliers are always there with their ads.
Bruno is a big one and hart etc etc etc. I think It still pretty good.
Just so you know My name is Gerry malerba from camillus.
I'm not big on the profile because of hackers"'''

Joe Pellegrene
01-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Goodgrouper if you want a nice magazine cover, consider joining the Varmint Hunters Association.

I joined last year so I could participate in their shoots, and found their magazines to be a really nice bonus.

Every one of their magazine covers are outstanding high quality images, and worthy of being framed.

I really look forward to seeing whats on the cover of the next issue, and couldn't recommend it enough.

Here's a link

http://www.varminthunter.org/

harrison
01-09-2008, 06:20 PM
I like the covers, they are well composed and examples of high quality photography. I think that a fine English double rifle which has a value in the five firgure range would probably qualify as a precision firearm.

The articles are diverse, entertaining, often informative, and pretty much attempt to cover the rifle shooting sports. There is more to the world of precision rifle shooting than just benchrest. In fact, BR shooters probably represent a minority when it comes to the rifle centric sports.
Bob

karls42
01-09-2008, 07:43 PM
A couple of observations from a by stander

If PS is so terrible - What's the name of the magazine YOU are going to publish that's so much better???

Sorry I can't find the ownership statement (December issues I think) but as I recall Mr Brennan is one of the OWNERS. So the idea that "the publisher" is going to fire him ain't gonna happen.

As owner Mr Brennen can, and will, print any thing he feels like. Even the (Oh God) Marlin lever action stuff from Mr. McPherson who is now using TWO SHOT groups as proof of accuracy. November issue page 96.

I would like to note two things you can NOT argue about the much worshiped "internet" -- IT IS TEMPORARY AND ANONYMOUS. About 1/3 of the material I try to check is JUST PLANE GONE, kaput, erased. Prove to me the guy really said that back in July! Just who the heck is "BIG HOG SHOOTER #1" ?? Where is he?? What is he?? When was He?? How can I check his sources?? Contact him? Fat Chance!!

J. Valentine
01-09-2008, 08:40 PM
I don't give a damn what is on the cover to be honest. I want to learn something new about precision shooting and the products and techniques employed to achieve it.
I have had exactly the same experience as Jackie Schmidt.
I would have loved to have read Jackies article rather than " Canyon Shooting " or " How to make a Rattlesnake Hatband " I can assure Mr Brennan.

Butch Lambert
01-09-2008, 09:05 PM
Mr. Valentine, just don't buy it! That is pretty simple.
:D
Butch

alinwa
01-09-2008, 10:39 PM
Well, I LIKE PS, and I LIKE Brennan's ramblings.

I even like the covers.

I don't know how Brennan could do any better for articles even though some of the stuff like "the zen of canyon plinking", the ramblings of Rychetnik and Chief WolfCloud's articles about scout rifles are not exactly my bag.


Shoot, this issue has at least 15 pix of guys from this board.......that's always fun too.



I just don't understand armchair quarterbacking, but then the last time I watched people driving around in circles or throwing or hitting or catching balls was I dunno when........that don't make it stupid though. I could sit and watch pool tournaments for hours back when I was shooting pool more, I once drove many miles just to watch folks hit balls into pockets.


guess it takes all types to make the world go-round. :)



OOOPs, my boys just challenged me to ping-pong on the livingroom table........gottago......


LOL



al

goodgrouper
01-09-2008, 11:45 PM
I like the covers, they are well composed and examples of high quality photography. I think that a fine English double rifle which has a value in the five firgure range would probably qualify as a precision firearm.

The articles are diverse, entertaining, often informative, and pretty much attempt to cover the rifle shooting sports. There is more to the world of precision rifle shooting than just benchrest. In fact, BR shooters probably represent a minority when it comes to the rifle centric sports.
Bob



Harrison,
I couldn't disagree with you more. A high price of a rifle that is designed to shoot 2 or 3 moa groups at 50 yards at a stampeding cape buffalo has absolutely nothing to do with precision-neither by cost nor performance. The fact that the pictures are of high quality is besides the point. You could take a pornographic picture with a 25,000 dollar Leica camera and it is still porn! Quality of image was never the problem. The problem was not about content either. The articles are very good for the most part in my opinion with far less snoozers than most hunting/gun rags. The problem was that there have not been any "precision" rifles on the cover in over 1 year! It would be similiar to putting a 50 bmg on the cover of Small Caliber News. It just doesn't fit.

If you like the covers, fine. Just say you like them but don't try and pass off a five digit price, double barreled scatter gun as a precision instrument to me 'cause I ain't buying it.

And I also disagree with you that BR shooters make up a minority of accuracy minded shooters. We ARE THE ACCURACY MINDED SHOOTERS!! Yes, there are highpower and long range hunters, but everyone in BR is concerned with accuracy and nothing else. That is why a muzzle loader on the cover doesn't interest me in the least.

goodgrouper
01-09-2008, 11:56 PM
Goodgrouper if you want a nice magazine cover, consider joining the Varmint Hunters Association.

I joined last year so I could participate in their shoots, and found their magazines to be a really nice bonus.

Every one of their magazine covers are outstanding high quality images, and worthy of being framed.

I really look forward to seeing whats on the cover of the next issue, and couldn't recommend it enough.

Here's a link

http://www.varminthunter.org/



Thanks for the recommendation Joe. I have been a long time member of the Varmint Hunter Association. Even belong to all the clubs from 500 on out to 2000.
You are right, the VHA has top notch covers. Worthy of framing for sure. But the VHA has the opposite problem as PS in my opinion. The quality of the articles has gone down hill so bad from about 1998 to the present that it is a mere shadow of what it once was. I swore that the next time there were more than two articles per issue about some guy blasting some coyote at 100 yards with a regular, off the shelf 22-250 I was going to quit subscribing. Well, the next issue came and there were THREE articles about the same thing! Enough of that wasted paper!

Just wish we could get VHA quality covers with PS quality articles-minus the rattlesnake hatband stuff of course!

Rick B
01-10-2008, 12:05 AM
Look at "Precision Shooting" going back to the 1960's .
Covers with L.E. Wilson for example.

Glenn:D

Yup! I remember when T.J. Jackson was on the cover. It was better than making the cover of Rolling Stone...well, at least to those of us who knew him.
:cool:

Rick

Stonewall
01-10-2008, 12:44 AM
Rick -I have that issue . Maybe Precision Shooting should reprint some of the older covers inside as a history lesson.

Glenn:D

Dusty Stevens
01-10-2008, 02:41 AM
I remember one of the last issues of shooter's news had some kind of kindergarten crayon drawing of a raccoon on the front too. I remember a bud asking what kind of shooting rag is that? I was rollin laughing http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy0007.gif

Rustystud
01-10-2008, 05:08 AM
1. Butch, as you said don't buy it.

2. It comes with an IBS membership and is not the plum it once was.

3. Here on this forum we are only venting on our frustrations. We are not directly addressing the problem. Maybe some of the PS board members will relay the post to Dave as of the last time I talked with him he was still bordering on being computer phobic. Since my subscription has lapsed I don't have a dog in the fight. I just think it is so sad that a Magazine that was so revered in the past is fallen to the way side.

Nat Lambeth