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View Full Version : The 6MM Beggs at Tomball Yesterday



jackie schmidt
01-07-2008, 08:34 PM
I finally got all of the pieces together for the 6mmBeggs, and headed for Tomball early yesterday Morning. Conditions were pretty bad, 10-15 mph switchy winds, the kind that makes shooters hate Tomball.
Before I give a report on the range experience, let me give a few thoughts on the set-up.
As Gene said, Hornady did make a minor mistake in that they did not make the decapping pins the correct size. I did not catch this, and when I tested the die at my shop, I "crunched" the pin. After getting it all apart, I took the spare pin that they just happenned to furnish and turned it down to .059. Problem solved.
The next item is the reamer its self. As a machinist, I feel like I can give some insight into using a reamer of this design.
The vast majority of reamers we use now have relative straight bodies. After the reamer advances a substantial amount into the chamber, it cuts very little on the body. But with the Beggs, which retains the same steep taper as the parent 220 Russian, the body of the reamer continues to cut quite a bit on the body for every small advancement into the chamber. Just be careful, use plenty of cutting oil, and be careful not to get to aggresive with the feed.
After I fired the cases once, I checked the headspace length of my fired cases. I gave the Rifle .002 over the go gage that Gene furnished me. The face to shoulder length, (headspace), increased about .005 over a necked up and turned 220 Russian Case. With the shell holder just kissing the base of the Hornady Die, the shoulder on a fired case was "bumped" back .002. This was just right.
I started out with N133, just to see what it would do. I filled a case with 27 grns, and velocity was only an average 3200 fps. Lots of verticle. I steadilly went up, untill I had as much 133 as I could get into the case with my 8 inch drop tube and slow trickle. That is about 28.4 grns. That still yielded only an average 3270 fps. Accuracy wasn't bad, but not what I was looking for, even in the stiff conditions. I played with the seating depth, and showed little improvement.
I decided that 133 is just a tad slow for the capacity of the 6mm Beggs. I pulled out the 4198, and decided to just start with 27 grns.
Good Grief, The first shot went 3425 fps. Since I had loaded up five, I decided to shoot a group, as that case came out with no aparent problems. The group I shot, in a predominate ebbing and flowing tail wind, was about a .130. But, I decided that there was no use in shooting this, because common sense dictates that about 70,000 psi was being produced for a case this small to push a 68 grn bullet that fast. No use going there at this time.
So, I backed down to about 25.5 grns, and started working up. I seemed to have about a bullet hole of verticle untill I got the velocity at about 3350. I played with the seating depth, and decided that the 4198 did not like as much jam as 133 likes with the Barts Ultras. I took it back to about .005 in, and it shot a couple of nice groups, in the "high one" range. I added a few tenths, to 26.3 grns, and accuracy was what I was looking for, with an average 3360 fps.
I shot one more five shot group, and nailed a nice mid to high "one", fighting the tough conditions the whole way. (along the way, I did loose several shots to the condition, but they went exactly where the wind pushed them).
I then decided to shoot a ten shot group, as time was running out for the day. I had 8 shots in about a .150, even called everybody over to look before I screwed it up. The ninth shot popped high, adding a bullet hole to the group. The simple fact is, I miss-read the velocity of that tail win, as it was changing quickly. The tenth shot, for all purposes, went into the first eight. I was really disgusted, but upon reflection, the conditions were just not conducieve to shooting really small 10-shot groups. Or, at least, not for me.
Conclusion. The 6MM Beggs shoots just like a Benchrest Cartridge, which is no surprise. While I did have to fight the tough conditions all day long, I did shoot some outstanding groups The big surprise was how little trouble I had with the mechanics of the set-up. I had 12 cases that I shot all day with, a total of about 100 rounds. The Hornady Die performed great, sized the cases perfectly, and I never had one extraction problem, or "click" at the top of the bolt stroke. The cases only grew about .005 over the entire day of shooting, which was about 9 firings on each case. I consider that average. The primer pockets all are still nice and tight, and the cases look good.
Before, there was the idea that the 220 Russian in it's natural state would have extraction and growing problems when fired at the pressures that Benchrest Shooters use. If today is an indication, Gene has solved this problem.
One note, even though the Rifle was performing like a Benchrest Rifle, the SD's and ES's were not that good, showing that I could still fine tune things to a better tune. Also, I thought I had some N130, which would seem to be the ideal VV powder for this case, but I didn't. But this was just one day, I hit the ground running, but this is new territory for me.
Next week end, I plan on changing the chamber and my seating die to accept a non neck turned case. This will be a .273. I am anxiously wanting to see how it performs right out of the box.
As for the particulars for the set-up. I was shooting my Rail Gun with a .237 4-groove Krieger Unlimited 1.450 barrel that I chopped about 2 inches off of the chamber end, treating it like a new 20 inch blank. The bullets were Barts Ultras. I made the seater by taking a 6PPC Redding Competition Seater and making a new sliding chamber to fit the Beggs case. ..........jackie

Landers
01-07-2008, 09:20 PM
Jackie,

Any plans to set up a LV/Sporter rifle with one of your tuners? Could be the next rig that kicks butt at the Bluebonnet?

Anyway, a big thanks for sharing your test results. Sounds to me like we have a chambering that will give the 6mm PPC a run for the money.

Take care!

jackie schmidt
01-07-2008, 10:08 PM
I am, at this time, doing this simply to see for myself the potential of this chambering. Gene has done the heavy lifting, he is wanting shooters with Competitive Experience to try this, and give an honest assesment of it's potential.
It is no big secret that any small capacity, high entensity chambering that has the benefit of excellent components will shoot at the level that it takes to be competitive in Benchrest. With the Beggs, both 22 and 6mm, we have the finest in brass, bullets, powder, and everything else that makes a cartridge shoot at a sub .200 level.
The big question with the 220 Russian has always been, "there is no way it will work right out of the box". Much of this centered around the mechanical aspects, ie difficult extraction, and excessive case growth. I experienced none of this Sunday. In my opinion, it acted just like any other Benchrest Cartridge.
But do keep in mind, I am heavilly invested in what I am shooting now. And, it has served me well. I will have to do some real soul searching to decide if I am willing to abandon a proven concept at this time.
The learning curve in Benchrest is pretty steep. I just do not know if, at this point in my life, I want to start over.
But that does not keep me from doing things such as this. Since I have all of the means to do just about anything involved with these sort of projects, I feel like others can learn from what takes me nothing more than some time to do. Gene was kind enough to furnish me with the reamer and die, so my out of pocket cost are minimum.
My 30PPC, in my opinion, was a project that turned out to be worth the time and effort that I put into it. It appears that the Beggs case falls into that same category.........jackie

PHaxell
01-09-2008, 07:34 AM
Jackie,

I am interested to know if you are going to try your 'standard' offering in your Bruno 00's in your Kreiger with this Beggs case. And, what the results will show, particularly if this thing will agg. I like the idea of not having to turn cases or turn minimally. I am but a beginner in this Benchrest lark, but I can appreciate a good thing when I 'see' it.
Before I invest in either PPC or Beggs tooling, I want to see what your results yeild and what your opinions are.

Keep up the good work. You too Gene. We really appreciate it.

Peter

Frank Svenson
01-09-2008, 10:46 AM
Jackie. Speaking for myself and probably countless others who do not compete ,but really appreciate accurate rifles. I read ALL your posts and have learned a lot about a variety of things from machining , shooting and reloading to being a standup guy. KEEP going , we really appreciate your work and dedication. Frank

Jerry Dailey
01-09-2008, 07:36 PM
...... are getting ready to try it on our sporters. We'll keep you posted. Are you planing on coming to Rachel glen Apr 5&6? If soplease keep me on your flag sharing list

jackie schmidt
01-09-2008, 07:42 PM
I can't make the Spring Match at Rachels Glenn, but I WILL be there at the Fall 200 yard 4-Gun.........jackie

Marty steffan
01-09-2008, 08:47 PM
Jackie Schmidt

I believe that there are a lot of people like me who are very interested in the work that you and Gene are doing on the 6mm Beggs. I have been visiting the Bench forums for two years and this is my first attempt to reply. I have been shooting Hunter Bench Rest for three years, and I am interested in getting into group shooting also.

When you finish doing your testing on the 6mm Beggs would you tell us which one (6 mm Beggs or 6 PPC) you would recommend for somebody just starting group shooting. I do not like to turn necks!?!

Keep up the good work; we appreciate it.
Thanks, Marty Steffan

BJS6
01-09-2008, 08:56 PM
Jackie,

I saw your comments elsewhere about wondering if you were wasting your time typing out your results based on the very few replies.

You are not wasting your time.

I am just replying as a courtesy to tell you that I read all the stuff that you and Gene write about so far as tunnel testing and cartridge experimentation and I am sure a whole bunch of others find it just as interesting.

I know I am several hundreds of dollars poorer having bought a weather metre to keep an eye on the Density Altitude that Gene wrote about and the humidity that you think is key. That combined with the bullets and powder and barrel life that I have burned up over the last few months doing my own testing based on your guys observations plus the two barrels and 2500 bullets on order.

It is all good stuff and appreciated by me for one.

bglenn
01-09-2008, 11:38 PM
What you are doing is a lot of interest to people. Between you and Gene it makes my day when I see a post by one of you. Lots of good information. I just read and learn. keep up the good work.

Glenn

CYanchycki
01-17-2008, 02:54 PM
I am wondering something. From the standpoint of me being a newbie to Benchrest, would you say Jackie, from your limited testing that it is something to consider the 6 Beggs over the PPC for a newbie? I guess what I am trying to ask would it be easier to get the hang of the loading aspect and tuning?

What I find makes this so appealing is the limited work required to have a gun that could or potentially can win with little work in the loading aspect.

Do you get what I am trying to ask?

Calvin

Dusty Stevens
01-17-2008, 03:05 PM
a newbie should stick with a PPC for the simple fact folks can help you at a match. I have never seen a problem get solved when a shooter has a BR or something like that. they are always at the bottom of the list just because not alot of people there has experience tuning their powder and such.

TBonz
01-17-2008, 03:16 PM
a newbie should stick with a PPC for the simple fact folks can help you at a match. I have never seen a problem get solved when a shooter has a BR or something like that. they are always at the bottom of the list just because not alot of people there has experience tuning their powder and such.

Dusty - if you don't mind a slight modification to what you said...

Or whatever it is that is most commonly shot in the matches you'll be attending...being a newbie myself, I'm glad I decided on a 30BR since they're primarily used in the score matches around here...

Tom

Dusty Stevens
01-17-2008, 03:35 PM
thanks for the correction. you are absolutely correct.