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Caduceus1964
01-06-2008, 01:12 PM
I've heard that many benchrest shooters use nothing but JB's and Kroil to clean the bores of their rifles. Is this true? Does anyone on the board do this? TIA:confused:

pbike
01-06-2008, 01:38 PM
We don't use moly, but the guys that use moly might know. JB and Kroil was the way the Berger Bullet people advised for cleaning after using moly.

We use Danzac, and are trying Boron Nitride, for coating our bullets. We have done well just using GM top Engine as a cleaning solvent, and light brushing.

Paul

virg
01-06-2008, 03:29 PM
I've heard that many benchrest shooters use nothing but JB's and Kroil to clean the bores of their rifles. Is this true? Does anyone on the board do this? TIA:confused:

Nope; I use two patches of Sweet's, a light brushing with a bronze brush soaked with Butch's followed by a dry patch. However, the JB method is just as effective, in my opinion...if one wants to avoid the brush. Remember; fifty brush strokes per day with a bronze brush over a ten year period, may cause undue wear to a barrel.;)

Have a good season...virg

ReedG
01-06-2008, 03:45 PM
I'm one of the shooters who uses only Kroil and JBs and I use only t-d coated bullets. My Krieger match barrel stopped showing copper after the 3rd round. I clean after every 20 or so rounds and this barrel has never seen a brush. My 6 BR Shilen had over 1,500 rounds through it, with cleaning by Butch's, Sweet's, bronze brushes. I switched to the Kroil/JBs system and at 2,800 rounds it looks great. I also just bought a Tikka M595 Master Sporter and it is also cleaned the same way. All of these use t-d coated bullets.

The Kroil/JBs regimen was suggested to me by Jim Borden if I was going to use "Danzac" (tungsten-disulfide) coated bullets. I tried it, was amazed by its effectiveness.

I need to tell you, though, that milder cleaners like Hoppes No. 9 and Butch's Bore Shine will probably work as well as the Kroil, but I prefer to use the least amount of "kill-you-if-you-smell-it" chemicals as possible and I have never felt right running brushes up and down my bores.

There are so many things we do in this sport just because we like or don't like to and this is certainly one of them. But I can attest that Kroil and JBs is an excellent cleaning method. I think JBs is as effective as any brush.

ConRich
01-06-2008, 06:47 PM
Hi ReedG,
Would you take a minute to explain in detail the Kroil / JB cleaning regimen that you use. I just started using the T-D coated bullets last September and like the results.

I have a new gun on the way for the 2008 season, it will have a Krieger SS barrel and I intend to use the T-D coated bullets in that rifle. How should I be cleaning it ?

TIA
Rich

ReedG
01-06-2008, 08:26 PM
Hi Rich:

Let me state that this process is not my idea and when I first started using it I was quite skeptical. When Jim Borden (Borden Accuracy) shipped back my BR rifle, he enclosed a copy of his recommended break-in and cleaning regimens. This was part of that enclosure and Jim attributes it to Walt Berger for use with coated bullets.

STANDARD CLEANING CYCLE FOR COATED BULLETS:

1. Run a patch saturated with Kroil through the bore.
2. Impregnate a patch with JB bore paste and short stroke the length of the barrel. Look in the end of the barrel and see if you can see any copper streaks. If not, proceed. If you see copper, repeat the JB treatment.
3. Run a couple of individual patches saturated with Kroil through the bore.
4. Dry the bore with one to two patches.
5. Use two small drops of Kroil on a patch and run it through the bore prior to shooting (or use a patch saturated with Lock-Ease).

That's it. No magic. I don't think any of it is cast in cement. I usually run a couple of Kroil patches at first until I get one that isn't too dirty, then go to the JBs.

As I said, I was pretty skeptical of this when I started and have checked the bore with Sweet's and Slip 2000 and Butch's left overnight without any traces of copper.

I now use this process in my 6 BR, .223 AI and .223 factory with excellent results.

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about JB bore paste. It is not a lapping compound and does not harm the bore. It is an amazing carbon and copper remover.

ConRich
01-07-2008, 03:02 PM
Thanks for passing that along to me.

Rich

Octopus
01-07-2008, 05:14 PM
I have been shooting a Borden Rifle since 2002 w moly. Barrel #4 is shooting tight and #5 is awaiting the first round. Barrel 1 & 2 went 2500+ barrel three was never a real good shooter. Often I shoot 50 to 100 times between cleaning. Usually after 40 to 50 shots I will run a Kroil patch thru the tube and then shoot again.

I have always followed Jim's advise. However, after the first Kroil patch I use 25 long strokes with JB on a tight patch. If the bore does not feel clean I use a second patch and 25 long strokes again.

This procedure has been checked often with my bore scope. It works for me.

When I finish shooting for the day I clean with JB and then patch with Kroil followed with a wet patch using a heavier oil for storage.

Pete Wass
01-07-2008, 07:04 PM
Hi Rich:

Let me state that this process is not my idea and when I first started using it I was quite skeptical. When Jim Borden (Borden Accuracy) shipped back my BR rifle, he enclosed a copy of his recommended break-in and cleaning regimens. This was part of that enclosure and Jim attributes it to Walt Berger for use with coated bullets.

STANDARD CLEANING CYCLE FOR COATED BULLETS:

1. Run a patch saturated with Kroil through the bore.
2. Impregnate a patch with JB bore paste and short stroke the length of the barrel. Look in the end of the barrel and see if you can see any copper streaks. If not, proceed. If you see copper, repeat the JB treatment.
3. Run a couple of individual patches saturated with Kroil through the bore.
4. Dry the bore with one to two patches.
5. Use two small drops of Kroil on a patch and run it through the bore prior to shooting (or use a patch saturated with Lock-Ease).

That's it. No magic. I don't think any of it is cast in cement. I usually run a couple of Kroil patches at first until I get one that isn't too dirty, then go to the JBs.

As I said, I was pretty skeptical of this when I started and have checked the bore with Sweet's and Slip 2000 and Butch's left overnight without any traces of copper.

I now use this process in my 6 BR, .223 AI and .223 factory with excellent results.

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about JB bore paste. It is not a lapping compound and does not harm the bore. It is an amazing carbon and copper remover.

Why do you not use a bronze brush as part of your cleaning regime?

P.

keithcatfish
01-07-2008, 08:10 PM
How tight is a "tight" patch? Is using the JB/Kroil mix on a mop equally effective or is it not tight enough?

I have a very accurate, but copper collecting factory rifle that usually requires 2 overnight Wipeout treatments to clean and I'm looking for somethink a lot faster to use at the range/varmint field.

THANX!

ReedG
01-07-2008, 09:56 PM
Peter:

I hate brushes ... I have never felt comfortable running brushes up and down the bores, even of factory rifles. That's why I've fooled around with all the chemicals out there and even decided I don't want that junk in my barrels either. I've sat in the clubhouse and watched Lee ram his brush up and down his bore, full-length stroking as fast as he can for dozens of times, and I have to look away ... guess I was just born with a "hate-brushes" gene, or something.

But through last season and lots of casual shooting, I am totally sold on JBs and Kroil. You know I'm a big fan of Keep It Simple, Stupid and this Kroil/JBs is a no-brainer to me.

I know lots of guys don't clean for dozens to hundreds of rounds when using coated bullets, and I don't have any real problem with that, but I have always found my 30 BR to shoot better when kept reasonably clean -- every 20 or 30 rounds. Kroil and JBs is not a very exhausting regimen, only takes a couple minutes, and the targets always look better. If I follow the cleaning with a clean patch with just a drop or two of Kroil, my first "fouling" round is right on the X (it's the next five I have trouble with!!!).

ReedG
01-07-2008, 10:10 PM
Keith:

I'd like to see you test the Kroil/JBs regimen. I just use Sinclair patches of the regular size for whatever caliber. I guess the patch needs to make solid contact inside the lands but it doesn't have to be unusually tight. My patches will "short-stroke" back and forth without any problem.

I've had two .223 Remington barrels on Savages that would copper up just laying near a box of bullets. I've used the Kroil/JBs regimen with complete satisfaction and also the same regimen with Butch's/JBs when I ran out of Kroil. The Kroil is good stuff, but I really think the secret here is the JBs, even you have to do three or four patches impregnated with JBs to get everything out of the factory barrel, it will work. You also will know when it's clean because you can literally feel how much easier a patch goes down the bore.

This regimen was developed for custom barrels, and works excellently in them, but I use with great results in factory barrels, too.

Octopus
01-08-2008, 06:46 AM
For the JB - Kroil cleaning the best patches I have found are the Brownell Mcro-Fiber Twill Patches. Much better than cotton.

I use these patched wrapped around a Dewey "Parker Hale Style Jag, on a one piece Dewey Coated rod.

With this set up the rod guide is critical. Lot of pressure on the rod when you push it in so you must have a first rate bench rest quality rod guide.

TK Nolan made the rod guide set I use. Pricey but cheaper than barrels.

keithcatfish
01-08-2008, 07:25 PM
Reed and Octopus,

Thanks for your input. The rifle in question is also a 223 Savage. I will compare a mop vs. a snug patch and report back with the results after a trip to the range this weekend. I figure that if a patch can be short stroked we are not talking about "cleaning rod snapping tight".

Caduceus1964
01-11-2008, 05:23 AM
Reed and Octopus,

Thanks for your input. The rifle in question is also a 223 Savage. I will compare a mop vs. a snug patch and report back with the results after a trip to the range this weekend. I figure that if a patch can be short stroked we are not talking about "cleaning rod snapping tight".

You wont be disappointed with JB's and Kroil.:cool: