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View Full Version : Help with picking factory rifle...If you don't mind.



7mmaniac
01-06-2008, 02:46 AM
Hello Everyone,
I've spent the last few weeks reading here before I joined tonight. I've been planning a custom for several months now. I've called around to get the parts...wait times are scary for some. Anyway...I want something right now to start playing with and hopefully it'll help help me make a few decisions about the custom.
I'm left-handed. My choices are Rem 700 SPS Varmint .308 Win and
Savage Model 12 .308 Win

Both has 26" barrels but twist is different. 12 twist in Remmy and 10 twist in Savage. I want to shoot the 190 class MK/berger etc. Seems like Savage is a shoe in. Am I incorrect in my thought processes?

I prefer the Remmy but availability seems to be a problem. Anyone aware if their even making them yet? Would you suggest the Savage? If so, will I be able to sell it later? Any points will be appreciated. I have thick skin, lay it on me. Plan: 800-1000 paper, hunting out to 600. I've been shooting/killing out to 450 + or - for about 10 years now. Just ready for the next evolution.

Thanks,

Tim

Worker
01-06-2008, 10:37 AM
:D Hearing great reports about Savages. I love my Remington's that is after they're accurized . If you have the cash for a custom why not look at Sako's selection they have a renowned reputation. Or FN no doubt there is some awesome shooting sticks out there.

gt40
01-06-2008, 10:45 AM
I have a Ruger Mod. 77 MKII VT. S/S Target Gray with the 2 stage target trigger in .220 Swift that is a tack driver right out of the box with reloads. I don't know if left hand is available, but guys with Savages take note at the range at how well it shoots.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=31&variation=Target%20Grey%AE%20Target&bct=Yes&type=Rifle

"Aim small miss small", :D

gt40

crb
01-06-2008, 12:06 PM
PM sent.

RayfromTX
01-06-2008, 12:40 PM
The only advantages that the Remington has over the Savage is the ability to fit it with a Jewell trigger and a larger number of gunsmiths that build on their platform.

The Savage has many advantages over the Remington, including being backed by a company that listens to it's customers and inherently superior accuracy. Ordering prefit custom barrels and switching them yourself without a gunsmith is another popular feature.

I am not bothered by the looks of the Savage and the bolt is smooth enough for me. The accutrigger is acceptable to most and can be lightened but I sure do love the Jewell trigger I have on my Savage 204.(<<<bragging)

7mmaniac
01-06-2008, 01:27 PM
I already have a SAKO 75 in 30-06 that's very accurate for a factory hunting rifle. 1/2-3/4 moa out to 500 with good loads. I shoot it regularly, just don't want to shoot it out working on my long-range game. I have a Stiller Predator on order and McM stock for a custom later. I just want a 'cheap' rifle to play with while waiting. (Cheap not being quality, referring to the price tag.) thinking 7WSM.

raypla
01-08-2008, 10:22 PM
I too have a SAKO 75 hunter and I can say it is definately my second most accurate rifle. My first most accurate rifle being a Remington 700 a 500R milspec in .308. It came from the factory w/an HS stock, and is capable of shooting much better than I will ever be capable of.

When I was still breaking it in I shot 10 rds at 100 yds at one target, went down to check out the paper, and there was only 4 holes I started thinking WTF until I saw one hole was slightly oblonged, I acctually put 6 rds in one hole. I only have access to a 300 yd range but I shot a 1.5" 5 shot group which I didn't think was too shabby. The best part was the rifle only cost $7-800 + a trigger job.

All in all its a definate shooter and if you can find one jump on it, I higly doubt you'll be disapointed.

I did a quick search for ya

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/Rem_M700_StainlessSpecial5RMilspec.asp

Excellent article

http://www.tobystactical.com/2007/11/remington-700-ss-5r-milspec.html

Another W/pics

david dumas
01-08-2008, 11:44 PM
when it comes to guns, golf clubs or boobs what ever you like is always the best in your eyes, got both savage and remington, some factory, some custom,they all shoot if you feed them the right load, fred at sharpshooter supply has triggers for the old savage rifles, and the new accutrigger is nice

alf
01-09-2008, 07:40 AM
The 12 twist in the Remington will work fine for the Sierra 190gr. Matchkings.

Al.

Bnhpr
01-09-2008, 12:10 PM
I have a good friend that is in the same situation as you (like many lefties). I recommended the Remington to him, but he went ahead and bought the Savage in .308 against my opinion.

He called me when it came in, and he was really bummed about the thin flimsy forend. He tried to work with Boyds to get a lefty varminter stock, and waited 4 months, and no stock, so he called and they said that they might not do a run for another 6 months (but they had no trouble cashing his check) so, disgruntled he asked for a refund, and they said fine.

He brought it up to the bench this past October, before hunting at my farm, and we sat down and put some ammo through it. 168 SMK's with 45 grains of Varget (my loads)

I called his shots. 1,2,3,4,5 all went into one ragged hole at 100 yards. I was blown away. I would never have guessed.

Ben

tylerw02
01-09-2008, 12:16 PM
inherently superior accuracy.


There are good and bad in either batch. That's for sure....I've seen some very very poor Savages and some very poor Remingtons.

I'll bet my 700 VLS won't be scared of the 'inherent accuracy' of a Savage when it shoots in the high .2s venturing sometimes to the low .3s.

tiny68
01-09-2008, 01:19 PM
I have a good friend that is in the same situation as you (like many lefties). I recommended the Remington to him, but he went ahead and bought the Savage in .308 against my opinion.

He called me when it came in, and he was really bummed about the thin flimsy forend. He tried to work with Boyds to get a lefty varminter stock, and waited 4 months, and no stock, so he called and they said that they might not do a run for another 6 months (but they had no trouble cashing his check) so, disgruntled he asked for a refund, and they said fine.

He brought it up to the bench this past October, before hunting at my farm, and we sat down and put some ammo through it. 168 SMK's with 45 grains of Varget (my loads)

I called his shots. 1,2,3,4,5 all went into one ragged hole at 100 yards. I was blown away. I would never have guessed.

Ben

Ben,

I had a somewhat similar experience but with a different twist. I shot a lot up till the late 1980s. College, grad school, career, and family made me pack up the rifles and reloading bench for over 15 years. When I quit shooting in the 1980s, I consider all Savages as junk rifles. I was a true Remmie fan and had a safe full of them to prove it. When I started shooting again a couple of years back I was shooting with a group of guys that all shoot Savages. I was blow away by how their bone-stock Savage rifles shot. 0.5" groups were the norm. And I am not taking about the 1 group out of 5 that is 0.5". I mean aggregates that are 0.5" and less. I have a couple of blue-printed custom barreled that 700s that will shoot aggs in the 0.3s and the occasional 0.2s. But these are far from the factory Remmies. I usually see 0.7-1.0" aggs with those. And I know, a little tuning goes a long way. I got my first and only Savage in 2007. Never fired the factory barrel. Hated the tupperware stock. I got luck and got a Boyd's varminter in 2 weeks flat. Screwed on a Shilen barrel and immediately started shooting 0.2s. I still only have one action, but 5 barrels and the all perform. I still haven't sold any of my Remmies and continue to shot them. But, I will build Savages for my kids. The ability to easily swap barrels is just too valuable to me. I have one good stock I am comfortable with with a reasonable trigger and optics package. For less than $300 I can get a premium custom barrel in the caliber/twist of my choice and I am ready to go. Even a bolt face change is a simple swap.

How times change....... tiny

Bnhpr
01-09-2008, 03:09 PM
Ben,

I had a somewhat similar experience but with a different twist. I shot a lot up till the late 1980s. College, grad school, career, and family made me pack up the rifles and reloading bench for over 15 years. When I quit shooting in the 1980s, I consider all Savages as junk rifles. I was a true Remmie fan and had a safe full of them to prove it. When I started shooting again a couple of years back I was shooting with a group of guys that all shoot Savages. I was blow away by how their bone-stock Savage rifles shot. 0.5" groups were the norm. And I am not taking about the 1 group out of 5 that is 0.5". I mean aggregates that are 0.5" and less. I have a couple of blue-printed custom barreled that 700s that will shoot aggs in the 0.3s and the occasional 0.2s. But these are far from the factory Remmies. I usually see 0.7-1.0" aggs with those. And I know, a little tuning goes a long way. I got my first and only Savage in 2007. Never fired the factory barrel. Hated the tupperware stock. I got luck and got a Boyd's varminter in 2 weeks flat. Screwed on a Shilen barrel and immediately started shooting 0.2s. I still only have one action, but 5 barrels and the all perform. I still haven't sold any of my Remmies and continue to shot them. But, I will build Savages for my kids. The ability to easily swap barrels is just too valuable to me. I have one good stock I am comfortable with with a reasonable trigger and optics package. For less than $300 I can get a premium custom barrel in the caliber/twist of my choice and I am ready to go. Even a bolt face change is a simple swap.

How times change....... tiny

Tiny,

On the subject of the pre-chambered savage barrels made by shilen, is the thread the same for the model 10, 12, 16 etc. Or, are there different savage threads?

Bnhpr
01-09-2008, 03:27 PM
There are good and bad in either batch. That's for sure....I've seen some very very poor Savages and some very poor Remingtons.

I'll bet my 700 VLS won't be scared of the 'inherent accuracy' of a Savage when it shoots in the high .2s venturing sometimes to the low .3s.

I have a Remington XR-100 special run rifle, chambered in .308 that shoots like that, hence my recommendation to buy the Remington.

tylerw02
01-09-2008, 03:34 PM
There are good and bad in all makes. I attribute mine shooting so well to the fact that it has .002" of headspace! That's quite abnormal for a factory-produced rifle. The free-bore is also very minimal. I have another 700 SPS Varmint .204 with much more headspace and free-bore. Loaded rounds won't fit from the VLS to the SPS.

That is the biggest advantage to a factory Savage...a guy could literally set his own headspace with minimal work.

Both need tweaking to guarantee accuracy. I'd love to get a LRPV and some Shilen bbls for it and a couple of different bolt-heads.

tiny68
01-09-2008, 05:01 PM
Tiny,

On the subject of the pre-chambered savage barrels made by shilen, is the thread the same for the model 10, 12, 16 etc. Or, are there different savage threads?


All newer (within last 20 years) Savages come in either standard shank or large shank. The standard is 1.060 x 20tpi and large shanks is 1.120 x 20tpi. For most Savage actions, the large shank is for only magnums. The exception is the newer Model 12 LRPV action also called the "target" action. All of its barrels are the large shank. So you just pick a type of action (large or standard shank) and buy all of your barrels to fit it.

I built a rear entry action wrench that allows me to pull and swap barrels without even pulling the scope. It has changed my views about shooting.

tiny

tylerw02
01-09-2008, 05:06 PM
Is it a pain to get the headspace set the same every time when going from this barrel to that one?

tiny68
01-09-2008, 06:26 PM
Is it a pain to get the headspace set the same every time when going from this barrel to that one?

I was really concerned about that at the start. My first Shilen I screwed on shoot so well I was afraid to un-screw and put the next one on. I use a "go" headspace gauge. I actually put an index mark on the barrel so I could see if I screwed it back to the same point the next time. It did. Exactly the same. My neck-sized cases from the previously time the barrel was installed had a nice tight light crush fit. Just like I want them. Easy to make adjustments. One turn of the barrel is exactly 0.050". I screw down the barrel on the go-gauge and then back off a 1/32 of a turn (0.0015"). I make the mark of the barrel and just hold it tight when I tighten the barrel nut. Works like a charm. I rarely leave any barrel on for more than a few weeks. Too many options :)

tiny

tylerw02
01-10-2008, 12:39 PM
I just may get a LRPV and a couple of bbls in late 08 or 09.

Maybe a 5mm SMc, a 6.5x47 Lapua, and a 6mm BR. That should be fun!

AVanGorder
01-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Tim,

I'm not just a Savage fan, I'm their King. I love Savage rifles and I have way too many of them. I even have one in 308. My Savage 308 does not shoot all that great. So, I took the barrel off and put on a 30BR.

I too shoot left handed, but, on the bench I like to shoot factory rifles that are right handed. Think about it... The port is right where I see it, makes loading so much easier.

For custom bench guns, get a Left Bolt / Right Port.

If the gun is to be used only from a bench, you might want to consider something smaller. The 308 has quite some recoil and I don't like getting beat up all the time.

Adrian

82boy
01-12-2008, 10:32 AM
Well if you want to do some more reading on Savage rifles, please check out this site.
http://www.savageshooters.com/
I love Savage rifles yes they are not perfect, the factory plastic stocks leave a lot to desire, but there are plenty of aftermarket stocks available, and you can use other factory stocks as well. Savage has the advantage because you can do just about anything you want to the thing if you have a slight bit of mechanical knowledge.

On triggers Sharp Shooter Supply makes a great trigger that adjust down to 12 oz, and rifle basix makes a trigger that will go down to 4oz. Jewel did make a few prototype triggers for a Savage but have abandon the idea, after release of the new target accu-trigger. ( Why I don’t know the target accu-trigger just doesn’t work like advertised) I do know that a manufacture is in process of manufacturing a new bench rest trigger for a Savage, it should be release this year.

There are good and bad with every brand, but you will find that Savage's reputation is they have great out of box accuracy. The factory savage barrels are rough but they shoot great, I have a few of them that shoot in the .3 area.

The fact that the Savage has the twist rate you prefer, it comes in left handed configuration, and they are well made, should sway you to try one. They should be priced a bit better than the Remington, so weigh the options.

Just remember gun brand loyalty is like car brand loyalty, some people like fords and hate Chevy’s, and talk bad about Chevy’s, and vise versa, and remember everyone has an opinion, but opinion is just that an opinion, and remember some have opinions on stuff they have never tied or worked on. I am not saying my opinion is right, and others are wrong, my suggestion is keep an open mind, do research on both, and weigh your options, and pick what you think is best.

I will say one other thing about Savage, right now savage is going through design changes, they have for the last year or so, and the availability of aftermarket stocks is very limited on the newer guns. Therefore, you may look for an older savage. ( more than 2 years old.)