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PPP MMM
01-02-2008, 05:09 PM
300WM seem to have the right powder capacity for heavy bullets in long range shooting, the good quality brass is cheap and always available and at the end this is somewhat negated by the .264 short neck. I'we been thinking for a while to extend the neck simply by pushing the neck down to create 45 degree shoulder. This would make the neck .338 long leaving some room for trimming perhaps. This idea is obviously not new, but have any of you have some experience with this configuration. Is there a gain worth it or it's just a vaste of time, money and the effort. The cartridge/bullet is intended to be long seated. Any replies are welcome.

Thanks
Peter

matthew dienes
01-02-2008, 06:12 PM
Peter, I think what you are looking for is the 308 Baer Cub,which is a improved 308 Norma mag,even the Norma Mag is pretty darn close to what you'll have by changing the shoulder angle and decreasing the powder capacity.Thats my 2 pennies worth.

PPP MMM
01-03-2008, 02:52 PM
Thank's Matt, looking at pics of the 308 Baer or 300 AI to me there seem to be not a great deal of difference in the length of the neck, compared to 300WM. The short version of 300AI has significantly longer neck, but also has reduced capacity, probably to the 300WSM level. To be realistic about it one can easily come to the conclusion that's to stick with the 300WM as is and spare the cases making hassle and save the money. Matt by the way, what was your cartridge/bullet when you shot your 2.6" in the practice? An impresive?...that's an understatement.

Shoot well
Peter

J. Pendergraft
01-03-2008, 03:02 PM
How do you propose to create the 45 deg shoulder? You likely would have to move the entire shoulder back at something like a 30-35 deg angle and then fireform to blow it out to 45 deg. When you attempt to bump back real sharp shoulders you will often collapse the case because you are exerting so much force. As Matt mentioned the 308 Norma is a good case size with a longer neck. This yields about the same capacity as the Boo Boo case made off the 8x68 case.

PPP MMM
01-03-2008, 04:07 PM
You perfectly answered my other worry, how to form that 45d. sharp shoulder by pushing it down without collapsing it. Thank's to you and Matt for sending me back to reality and to keep my straight 300WM. It shoots far better than I ever will.

Shoot well
Peter

PPP MMM
01-03-2008, 04:29 PM
You had perfectly answered my other worry, how to create that 45d. sharp shoulder by simply pushing it down without collapsing it. Thank's to you and Matt for sending me back to reality and to keep my straight 300WM, it shoots far better than I ever will.

Shoot well
Peter

a.JR
01-03-2008, 05:28 PM
Hi Peter, I have been running a case like this in 1K bench since 2003 , it's called by me ,a 300Redneck ..The 45 deg as explained will not work out, i have lengthened the neck to .340 and given it a 35 deg shoulder and in doing this it shortens the case when forming..It retains the original body taper with a dia to suit the Lapua parent brass ..I made the AOL at 2.590 ,this allows you to final trim all cases with a minimum cut ..The .340 long neck with the right throat/lead allows u to run bullets from the 175 SMK through to the 210 berger and still have the start of the bearing surface at .035 above the neck/ shoulder junction ..A simple matter of one pass through the chamber die with a Redding die wax coating and then run a K&M expander through and neck turn .. I cut the neck to .3312 od loaded with a .307 id unloaded and the reamer cuts at .334 chamber.. This finished case holds 92 gns of h20 ,which is approx 2gns less that the Lapua 300wm case..A powder around the 4831 area with bullet from 187 to 200 gn that i have used seems about right ..Try it i think you will like it ..JR..Jeff Rogers ..pic of a match target
300WM seem to have the right powder capacity for heavy bullets in long range shooting, the good quality brass is cheap and always available and at the end this is somewhat negated by the .264 short neck. I'we been thinking for a while to extend the neck simply by pushing the neck down to create 45 degree shoulder. This would make the neck .338 long leaving some room for trimming perhaps. This idea is obviously not new, but have any of you have some experience with this configuration. Is there a gain worth it or it's just a vaste of time, money and the effort. The cartridge/bullet is intended to be long seated. Any replies are welcome.

Thanks
Peter

PPP MMM
01-03-2008, 07:28 PM
for your input and the target is excelent. My original intention to incorporate the longer neck was to prolong a barrel throat life. I believe that the accuracy potential between your Redneck and straight 300WM would be rather academic. However your designe looks far better and quiet likely offers longer lasting cases and throat as well. In the past when I had my farm I used to shoot and experiment a lot ( I went through 43 heavy calibre rifles, sorry 42 as one was Rem. 6MM). Nowdays I'am not so enthusiastic as I once used to be about new projects. These days I like to shoot more rather than to fiddle with dies and cases, but it doesn't mean that I won't start the bug again in the future. I've learned that 9 out of 10 times all the effort comes to not much if not to nothing where an impovement is concern. Just for the record what do you think is the difference in the throat life of your Redneck and 300WM.

Shoot well
Peter

a.JR
01-03-2008, 10:08 PM
Hi Peter, Have no way of knowing between to 2 ..I only did this for the neck length to accomadate a variety of projectiles and wanted a little less capacity..I was set on 90 gns of h20 but my estimate was incorrect(got 92)..I have had a bunch of different cartridges over the years that have eroded right quick despite having a decent neck length..Current barrel has 2000 competitive rounds and is not dead yet ,6 match agg for year 2007 is 6.85 ins....If you were to pick 1 bullet (say 210 ber) then the short neck of the 300wm does not matter,this case has also been responsible for some real small groups over the years and again fits the 4831 area..JR..Jeff Rogers...Comparison pic..UOTE=PPP MMM;373960]for your input and the target is excelent. My original intention to incorporate the longer neck was to prolong a barrel throat life. I believe that the accuracy potential between your Redneck and straight 300WM would be rather academic. However your designe looks far better and quiet likely offers longer lasting cases and throat as well. In the past when I had my farm I used to shoot and experiment a lot ( I went through 43 heavy calibre rifles, sorry 42 as one was Rem. 6MM). Nowdays I'am not so enthusiastic as I once used to be about new projects. These days I like to shoot more rather than to fiddle with dies and cases, but it doesn't mean that I won't start the bug again in the future. I've learned that 9 out of 10 times all the effort comes to not much if not to nothing where an impovement is concern. Just for the record what do you think is the difference in the throat life of your Redneck and 300WM.

Shoot well
Peter[/QUOTE]

PPP MMM
01-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Jeff for your repply,the target and the cartridge both look great. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that's the luck of the draw how long the throat is going to last, according to your experience with both type of necks and the real life findings.

Shoot well
Peter