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Bro.D
01-01-2008, 10:29 PM
For the past few weeks I have been using a Pumkin turning tool for my 6 ppc. It is a wonderful tool but I was wondering how others get their best results. Do you expand the necks and then turn your brass straight out of the box or do you fire form with bullseye then expand and then turn. Which way have you found to give best results?

Thanks, Bro.D

lumpjaw
01-02-2008, 12:07 AM
Bro -

It would seem to me that considering the parent 220 Russian case's neck is dimensioned for .22 cal. you are going to have to expand before fire forming. Whichever method that you use after that, bullseye with COW or with a bullet contacting the lands, is a matter of preference. Personally, I prefer the latter. You'd be surprised at some of the groups during fire forming. Any trigger time is good trigger time.

All that I've heard regarding the "Pumpkin" is that it is a top drawer rig. The critical part of neck turning, aside from removing the proper amount of material, is the relationship between the expander and the turning mandrel. Should be around a .001 for a consistant cut.

Hope this may have helped some. The important idea is learning from doing.

jackie schmidt
01-02-2008, 08:15 AM
About 3 years ago, I started expanding the cases before I turned them. I just fill the 220 Russian case up with 133 or similiar powder, and seat a cheap 22 caliber bullet. When fired in a .269 neck 6PPC chamber, what comes out is a "Factory" non neck turned Lapua 6PPC case.
By doing this,I know exactly where the shoulder will be, and can turn accordingly. After I turn them, I fire them one more time in the same chamber, with a 6mm bullet, and they are ready to go to the line.
In all honesty, I don't think it makes much difference one way or the other on the target whether you turn, and then fire form, or fire them, and then turn. I just find it easier to fire them first...........jackie

Scott Nysse
01-02-2008, 08:29 AM
Bro -

It would seem to me that considering the parent 220 Russian case's neck is dimensioned for .22 cal. you are going to have to expand before fire forming. Whichever method that you use after that, bullseye with COW or with a bullet contacting the lands, is a matter of preference. Personally, I prefer the latter. You'd be surprised at some of the groups during fire forming. Any trigger time is good trigger time.

All that I've heard regarding the "Pumpkin" is that it is a top drawer rig. The critical part of neck turning, aside from removing the proper amount of material, is the relationship between the expander and the turning mandrel. Should be around a .001 for a consistant cut.

Hope this may have helped some. The important idea is learning from doing.
Bro.D
I just want to make sure that if you use a bullet to fire form that you DON'T use pistol powder. Fire forming with pistol powder and rifle bullets = bad things.

Bro.D
01-02-2008, 10:25 AM
on top of Bullseye, that is for sure! I have been putting 15gr. of Bullseye in a stock 220 russian case and then plugging the case with enough clay to keep the powder from coming out. This seems to work very well, and in my way of thinking it produced a good shoulder that I can turn to. After I fire the case in an old barrel that has the same chamber as my good barrels (262 neck) I then expand and then turn to my final dimension. My hope is that this procedure will produce better agging brass. Has anyone else found this to be true?

Bro.D

abintx
01-02-2008, 11:20 AM
About 3 years ago, I started expanding the cases before I turned them. I just fill the 220 Russian case up with 133 or similiar powder, and seat a cheap 22 caliber bullet. When fired in a .269 neck 6PPC chamber, what comes out is a "Factory" non neck turned Lapua 6PPC case. Do you use your "match barrel" when sending a .224 bullet down a .243 barrel ???

Wildcatter
01-02-2008, 11:32 AM
About 3 years ago, I started expanding the cases before I turned them. I just fill the 220 Russian case up with 133 or similiar powder, and seat a cheap 22 caliber bullet. When fired in a .269 neck 6PPC chamber, what comes out is a "Factory" non neck turned Lapua 6PPC case.
By doing this,I know exactly where the shoulder will be, and can turn accordingly. After I turn them, I fire them one more time in the same chamber, with a 6mm bullet, and they are ready to go to the line.
In all honesty, I don't think it makes much difference one way or the other on the target whether you turn, and then fire form, or fire them, and then turn. I just find it easier to fire them first...........jackie

just curious, what holds the case against the boltface using a 22 bullet? will the 220 case headspace in a ppc chamber?

Centerfire
01-02-2008, 12:44 PM
Bro D. I bought a pumpkin a couple of years ago and another's expanding die.
I had some problems. I contacted Don and he sent me his expander die.
Perfect fit, No Problems. Some turn all the neck brass in one pass. I perfer 4 passes. Takes a little longer but not a problem. Don't forget to use Don's suggested oil for turning. I suppose there are others but his works well.
Good luck.
Centerfire

BJS6
01-02-2008, 02:42 PM
Wildcatter,

In relation to fireforming 6PPC brass there seems to be a lot of comments here and there about jamming the bullet into the lands to hold the case against the bolt face and greasing cases to allow them to slide back and hit the bolt face.

I don't know where all that comes from because unless you intentionally shove the case shoulder back in a full length sizing die the 220 Russian will be a firm headspace in a PPC chamber and there is no need to jam the bullets and no place for the case to move !!

I expend the brass necks, neck turn and then bump the shoulder back just a little to leave a good firm headspace on the yet to be fireformed brass. Jamming a bullet into the lands with a case that doesn't headspace firmly is never going to offer the same resistance to case moving that a proper firm headspace will.

All you need to do is use a body die or the full length die with the bush removed and back them out in the press so that they bump the Russian cases shoulder just enough so that the case chambers with some definite resistance on the bolt handle.

Lube the bolt lugs frequently when forming brass !!

Bryce

jackie schmidt
01-02-2008, 03:59 PM
As you might guess, I have quite a few old barrels laying around.
But even at that, I have a dedicated fire forming rig. It has my chamber in it, and a 220 Russian heaspaces just fine, after I run it in a shoulder die, for the initial blow out.
I do smear a thin coat of Premier Sizing Wax on the body so it will not grip the chamber walls, I think they come out better like this.
I fire the case, with a full charge, in the same rig, after I turn the necks. That way it is ready to go to the line. I put a lot of thought into this rig, when you shoot a lot of cases, it saves a tremendous amount of time.
I also have rigs to make a 220 Russian into a 30PPC, and one to blow the necks out when making a 30BR out of a 6BR.
You can do the same thing with a Rifle, I just save trips to the range. I can do everything "in house", (really out back).........jackie

jackie schmidt
01-02-2008, 04:02 PM
I have shot cases made both ways, and I cannot tell the difference on paper.
I do it the way I do because it is easier to make a good case.
You really should fire a case twice before taking it to the line. On the initial blow out from 220 Russian, it looks pretty good. The second time insures that the case is nice and sharp with full capacity........jackie