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View Full Version : hold for head & tail winds.



russell m
12-26-2007, 09:39 PM
Is it necessary to hold for a head wind or tail wind? If so how hard does the wind have to be blowing? Russell

TheUglyTroll
12-27-2007, 04:01 AM
Yes - short answer.

99% of the time you will not have a perfect head or tail wind - the is always a slight angle.

The only way to master wind shooting - is to shoot in the wind with a good set of wind flags.

Careful observation will allow you to correlate point of impact with condition changes.

Attached is a sketch (copied from the forum) showing POI changes. I believe the sketch was drawn by Ron Hoehn - a well respected shooter, gunsmith and vendor.

FWIW,

Tony C
12-27-2007, 06:04 AM
Chart

ScottD
12-27-2007, 04:41 PM
I think I really studied the second chart from Tony C for the first time, even though I have seen it many times.

It doesn't seem right that the difference is location between the 6 and 7 wind could be that far apart. Same for the 12 and 1 wind.

am I missing something? seems like the chart says a 6 oclock wind will push up and a 7 oclock wind will push down?

Scott

jackie schmidt
12-27-2007, 05:00 PM
I have been at ranges where a tail wind drove bullets down, and ranges where the tail wind drove them up. The same with head winds.
When shooting straight on, or straight away winds, the best thing to do is get on the sighter and see what's happenning. A lot of theorys get defiled in real match situations.
I would bet that how head or tail winds affect the bullet has a lot to do with the ranges landscape. For instance, at ranges such as Tomball and Denton, there are places where the bullet is barly 14 inches off the ground, and others where it is 4 feet. That has to have some affect on things.
If given a choice, I would rather not shoot in either.........jackie

Earl Horgeshime
12-27-2007, 05:00 PM
With a right-hand twist barrel, push from the left side will always cause the bullet to drop - the stronger the push, the bigger the drop. Push from the right side will cause the bullet to climb, the bigger the push, the higher the climb. Take a good look at the chart and you will see that all the low shots are being pushed from left to right and all the high shots are being pushed right to left. As previously mentioned, a true tailwind or true headwind is rare - there is almost always some amount of angle.

crb
12-27-2007, 05:05 PM
Tailwind I aim low, headwind I aim high. Wind from left aim left, etc. I usually just think of the wind components separately. My thought process is "With this headwind component I need to hold here and with this 'left' wind I would need 'x' correction from the bull and then cross my fingers. Usually by then the wind has changed.:(

My homemade flags are very sensitive and will show you conditions you don't have to hold off for AS LONG AS I wait out any reverse. Took awhile to figure that out. I try to never shoot with 6 or 12 wind. Get the flag to one side before I shoot.

I am still too green to worry about the direction of the twist of my bbl.

ScottD
12-27-2007, 05:17 PM
Jackie is right - always shoot a sighter to see where is goes.

I don't mind headwinds, but tailwind is bad.

I think since I shoot most at Riverbend is why. The roof over the firing line starts low about 15 feet behind the line - it gradually rises as you get closer to the firing line...then there is a 3 foot section just ahead of the line that slopes drastically downward (for shade?)

Basically in a tailwind you are shooting just under the "exit" of a giant airfoil.

A lot of ranges have baffles / berms / funny roof shapes / wind funnels etc.
What happens at one place won't always apply to the others

Scott

russell m
12-27-2007, 06:15 PM
when i brought this up i had just been to my local range. The wind was blowing 10 to 25 easy & switching very quickly. I shot 5 groups. first 2 were round groups in the 350's. The next 3 groups were good in the high 0's to low 1's. The last 2 shots in each of these groups went either high or low. The wind would not stay long enough for me to shoot a sighter & then get back to my record target. When I got home I studied my target & i realized I had not been paying enough attention to my first flag. After thinking back on the day. The first flag was reading a very strong tail & switching to head wind. I hope this sunday has the same conditions so I can see if I do any better paying more attention to the first flag. russell.

wnroscoe
12-27-2007, 06:16 PM
Trigger time, detailed notes and wind flags are the only way to really know. Each range you shoot at should have its own range/note book with details of the firing line, berms, slopes, tree lines etc for each distance you shoot at. The note book and the notes in it will be a valuable aid.

Like Jackie said, the sighter target is your friend, sometimes ;).

russell m
12-27-2007, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the help I am at the range every weekend once if not twice. Trigger time is what I am doing. russell

crb
12-27-2007, 07:11 PM
At our Nov [ group ] match we had very tough conditions with gusty winds. In those conditions my props were of little use to me. I started watching Scott's wind speed indicators and trying to shoot at a certain wind speed. Usually this meant waiting for the indicator to get back to the middle of one side of the scale [ as opposed to being off the scale ].

sbindy
12-28-2007, 01:28 PM
This is exactly what I had been looking for. Explains alot of my shots that were "right there" and didnt go where they were supposed to.

caroby
12-28-2007, 03:05 PM
I have been at ranges where a tail wind drove bullets down, and ranges where the tail wind drove them up. The same with head winds.
When shooting straight on, or straight away winds, the best thing to do is get on the sighter and see what's happenning. A lot of theorys get defiled in real match situations.
I would bet that how head or tail winds affect the bullet has a lot to do with the ranges landscape. For instance, at ranges such as Tomball and Denton, there are places where the bullet is barly 14 inches off the ground, and others where it is 4 feet. That has to have some affect on things.
If given a choice, I would rather not shoot in either.........jackie

Yes, very insightful and as I have experienced.
Especially on different ranges... Topology.
Denton, Tx shooting at 12"-14" off the ground through most of the 200 yard course as well as Kelbly's first 10 benches right off the benches (first 12-20 yds). Both cause unique reactions in both head and tail winds. Not to mention very short wind flags...!

Another extreme is a range like Luther, OK ... 200Yds you got a dip in the range from 10 yards out to about 150yds that at the lowest the bullet is about 18 feet off the ground. Along with the entire range being in a valley and thick trees totally surrounding the whole range... The wind reading is QUITE unique! :rolleyes: Not to mention very TALL wind flags....!
Topology has it's effects on the usual 3 oclock is right to left... 9 oclock is left to right. 6 oclock is going up and 12 oclock is gonna blow it down...

Usually this meant waiting for the indicator to get back to the middle of one side of the scale [ as opposed to being off the scale ].crb...

Yes, the wind probes can mislead...I get to transfixed watch'n them... Then shoot right when I shouldn't!!!!:confused::(

Read'n the wind is TOUGH.!
cale