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TrxR
10-24-2019, 07:52 PM
Anyone see any advantage or disadvantage of only having the two outer edges of the stock touching the front bag instead of all three inch riding the bag? Im thinking just leaving a 1/2" on each side and routering out the center area. Im thinking it might decrease the chances of the stock rocking if you dont have bag filled just right.

Thanks

markharp
10-24-2019, 08:24 PM
I think the rules for registered competition require it to be flat.

TrxR
10-24-2019, 08:30 PM
This rifle will be used only for local club matches as any registered matches are too far away for me to travel to.

alinwa
10-25-2019, 07:08 PM
I wouldn't do it :)

Registered 100-200-300 disallow (the rules state specifically "convex surface") it and I'd be afraid I'd build bad habits from it.

FBecigneul
10-26-2019, 11:12 AM
Hey TrxR;
As the rules for both IBS and NBRSA both state the forearm should be flat or convex, you might turn your attention to getting your front bag in a flat or concave shape. You should be able to move the sand around to the ears or at least to the outer edges of the bag. Simple massaging of the bag should get this done and then making a wood or metal block to place in the front rest between shooting outings should keep the bag in the shape you want. What rest and bag are you using? Being in New Brunswick, you have all winter to work on that.

TrxR
10-26-2019, 04:25 PM
Hey TrxR;
As the rules for both IBS and NBRSA both state the forearm should be flat or convex, you might turn your attention to getting your front bag in a flat or concave shape. You should be able to move the sand around to the ears or at least to the outer edges of the bag. Simple massaging of the bag should get this done and then making a wood or metal block to place in the front rest between shooting outings should keep the bag in the shape you want. What rest and bag are you using? Being in New Brunswick, you have all winter to work on that.

Right now Im using a cowan rest and a edgewood front bag.

Im probably never going to shoot a registered match as the closest is probably a 3 day drive away.

FBecigneul
10-26-2019, 05:14 PM
There are a number of matches in Maine. So, rather than alter a stock and make it near impossible to sell, I think I’d work on the front bag to make it concave and have the rifle run the outer edges on the bag.

tim
10-26-2019, 05:40 PM
Right now Im using a cowan rest and a edgewood front bag.

Im probably never going to shoot a registered match as the closest is probably a 3 day drive away.

In spite of that, probably a bad idea mostly because these guns want to rotate in the front bag, on recoil.
I suspect a narrow outer edge with make bag deformation a lot easier than a flat/wider surface.

TrxR
10-26-2019, 06:23 PM
It was pointed out to me that the long range benchrest guys use this setup.

TrxR
10-26-2019, 07:08 PM
Does anyone have a link to the rules for the stocks for heavy varmint for score? Like the slope required and so forth? The stock is this winters project.

jackie schmidt
10-26-2019, 07:20 PM
NBRSA Varmint for Score is fired with a rifle that is legal to be used in class Heavy Varmint.

alinwa
10-26-2019, 07:33 PM
It was pointed out to me that the long range benchrest guys use this setup.

I have two of them.... in 17lb and 65lb

Yes, the concept "works" and as has been stated, it has it's own set of problems. I just wouldn't mix my metaphors like that in your case. IMO it's worthwhile to use a rifle as it's been designed to be used.

That said, I also have a "universal gun" which has 7 competition barrels, a tinkertoy forend (plate/rails/extension) which allows it to be legal in everything from 10lb HBR through LG and HV Group, VFS and even LG 600yd..... I FEEL ya'...... I'm just opining that you should use yours as it's been designed to be used.

TrxR
10-26-2019, 07:47 PM
Are the IBS rules and NBRSA rules the same as far as stock design is concerned?

Does the forend have to be parallel with the action or can it have a slope to it?

Wilbur
10-26-2019, 09:59 PM
Folks are shooting sub .2 inch aggregates with a 3 inch flat forend. Just sayin'.

Boyd Allen
10-28-2019, 05:45 AM
Are the IBS rules and NBRSA rules the same as far as stock design is concerned?

Does the forend have to be parallel with the action or can it have a slope to it?

I am not aware of any rule regarding the slope of a forend. My 6PPC has a slope in that area.

gabe ledesma
10-28-2019, 06:14 PM
I am not aware of any rule regarding the slope of a forend. My 6PPC has a slope in that area.

BOYDMAN lets open up that rule book and see if there is any restrictions on having the forend of the stock or front bag from having any typ of concaves on it, i have also wondered what the rules are for this typ of alteration

FBecigneul
10-30-2019, 10:56 AM
Gabe
Are you asking Boyd to open that rule book up for his enlightenment or to actually post the rule because NBRSA short range clearly states the forearm “should” be flat or convex and not more than 3 inches wide. That’s somewhat cloudy because of the word “Should” but I’d live with the use of “must” in this rule.
IBS states the forearm “will” be flat or convex and no more than three inches wide inclusive of stock tape.
In IBS Hunter the stock “must” be convex and not more than 2.25 inches wide. I once asked at the IBS winter meeting for a definition of “convex” and was told the earth is convex.
For a while the SE Region of NBRSA had a Bob Dodd built gage for measuring that 3 inch forearm and I spent one Friday evening in Greenville, Alabama cooking the stock tape off my LV rig because it made the forearm too wide.
The rules of NBRSA clearly state the method for measuring the butt stock drop measurement. It states the drop shall be measured by the use of a rod guide and cleaning rod sticking out the rear of the action and measuring down from that rod to the bottom of the vertical drop of the butt. Kelbly built a jib for measuring that angle and Hobie Bond and referee Buddy Ross (I think) called competitors up to be tested at the Shamrock at MGGOA. I and Joe Krupa went up as called with our rifles, rod guide, and rod for the obligatory measurement. When told to place my rifle in the jig I refused (OH, I also had my rule book with me). I told them if I have to abide by the rules, so do they and that jig isn’t in the rule book. I won that argument and Joe Krupa said if Francis doesn’t use the jig, either do I. I won that that argument but referee Buddy Ross called me up for a weigh in before every match that morning. He couldn’t believe my anemic LV Metric stocked LV weighed 9 pounds 9 ounces and he was being a disgruntled and vanquished pain in the ass.

FBecigneul
10-30-2019, 12:37 PM
Boyd
That must be a Tom Meredith stock. I am not aware of any others that slope down to the rear or up to the foreword end of the forearm.

gabe ledesma
10-31-2019, 05:38 PM
Gabe
Are you asking Boyd to open that rule book up for his enlightenment or to actually post the rule because NBRSA short range clearly states the forearm “should” be flat or convex and not more than 3 inches wide. That’s somewhat cloudy because of the word “Should” but I’d live with the use of “must” in this rule.
IBS states the forearm “will” be flat or convex and no more than three inches wide inclusive of stock tape.
In IBS Hunter the stock “must” be convex and not more than 2.25 inches wide. I once asked at the IBS winter meeting for a definition of “convex” and was told the earth is convex.
For a while the SE Region of NBRSA had a Bob Dodd built gage for measuring that 3 inch forearm and I spent one Friday evening in Greenville, Alabama cooking the stock tape off my LV rig because it made the forearm too wide.
The rules of NBRSA clearly state the method for measuring the butt stock drop measurement. It states the drop shall be measured by the use of a rod guide and cleaning rod sticking out the rear of the action and measuring down from that rod to the bottom of the vertical drop of the butt. Kelbly built a jib for measuring that angle and Howie Bond and referee Buddy Ross (I think) called competitors up to be tested at the Shamrock at MGGOA. I and Joe Krupa went up as called with our rifles, rod guide, and rod for the obligatory measurement. When told to place my rifle in the jig I refused (OH, I also had my rule book with me). I told them if I have to abide by the rules, so do they and that jig isn’t in the rule book. I won that argument and Joe Krupa said if Francis doesn’t use the jig, either do I. I won that that argument but referee Buddy Ross called me up for a weigh in before every match that morning. He couldn’t believe my anemic LV Metric stocked LV weighed 9 pounds 9 ounces and he was being a disgruntled and vanquished pain in the ass.
Francis this is for NBRSA rules only that I am asking for as I don’t shoot ibs or score in my area. I was looking at some stock designs and came across this, would this stock be legal in the nbrsa rool book?

FBecigneul
10-31-2019, 06:10 PM
If you are referring to legal in NBRSA short range, I would say “no”. However, the word “should” makes it seem a bit cloudy. I would feel better if it said “shall or must”.

DT1
11-02-2019, 09:01 PM
If you are referring to legal in NBRSA short range, I would say “no”. However, the word “should” makes it seem a bit cloudy. I would feel better if it said “shall or must”.

Stock could be considered legal because there is no convex section. Both the rails and the cutout are flat.
Definition of convex:

convex
[ˌkänˈveks, ˈkänveks]
ADJECTIVE
having an outline or surface curved like the exterior of a circle or sphere.Compare with concave.
"a convex lens"
synonyms:
curved outward · cambered · rounded · bulging · swelling · protuberant · [more]
(of a polygon) having only interior angles measuring less than 180°.

alinwa
11-02-2019, 09:21 PM
Stock could be considered legal because there is no convex section. Both the rails and the cutout are flat.
Definition of convex:

convex
[ˌkänˈveks, ˈkänveks]
ADJECTIVE
having an outline or surface curved like the exterior of a circle or sphere.Compare with concave.
"a convex lens"
synonyms:
curved outward · cambered · rounded · bulging · swelling · protuberant · [more]
(of a polygon) having only interior angles measuring less than 180°.
LOL, I'd like to be there when you shoot a good one and tell the RO THAT!

Lovely logic though

sdean
11-11-2019, 10:21 PM
Does the front bag have to be flat? As in two piece or one made with a 3 pocket bottom as to leave the center portion light on sand..

alinwa
11-11-2019, 11:01 PM
Does the front bag have to be flat? As in two piece or one made with a 3 pocket bottom as to leave the center portion light on sand..

100% contact

Wilbur
11-14-2019, 04:31 PM
Alinwa made it short and easy to understand. I'll mention again that folks are shooting extremely small aggs with a 3 inch flat stock...insinuating that the forend doesn't have much to do with anything except maybe weight.

Boyd Allen
11-14-2019, 09:10 PM
The The NBRSA and for that matter the IBS rules regarding stock design are both different for long and short range. For the bag gun classes in short range the contact must be across the entire bottom of the forend, but for long range, there is no width or contact across the bottom requirement. The picture that shows relief on the bottom of the forend is of a stock that was probably designed with long range in mind. I say this because I have seen a picture of the entire stock and I do not believe that its toe angle would satisfy short range rules, the edge contact forend, and then there is the matter of weight. While long range LGs have a 17# limit, short range bag guns are limited to 10.5 and 13.5 and for that reason you do not see a lot of bulky wood stocks on the line. Not all long range stocks are built to only ride on the edges, but the latest and hottest one that I know of is. https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/rifle-components
From the NBRSA short range rules: "The stock should have a flat or convex forearm not more than 3 inches wide..."

"The front sandbag. The front shall be a bag, without additions, containing sand only, and at least 1⁄2” thick over its entire surface. The portion which contacts the rifle shall contact the entire surface under the fore end. Tape on the sandbag is legal.

From the NBRSA long range benchrest rules for both light and heavy guns: "
There are no stock limitations. "