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View Full Version : Chambering: indicate bore before threading and/or before reamer?



Mram10
07-28-2019, 12:47 AM
I have read of a few guys that indicate, thread and then indicate again before running in the reamer. I have always indicated once in a 4 jaw then threaded and ran the reamer. Has anyone had a barrel move on them between those steps?

JerrySharrett
07-28-2019, 06:46 AM
I have read of a few guys that indicate, thread and then indicate again before running in the reamer. I have always indicated once in a 4 jaw then threaded and ran the reamer. Has anyone had a barrel move on them between those steps?

Yes, the barrel can move.

Best to indicate, ream, then thread. Its not important that the threads be dead nuts on, but it is important that the chamber be dead nuts true with the bore.

Indicate several times for an accurate chambering.


/

retired
07-29-2019, 11:59 AM
lol


Yes, the barrel can move.

Best to indicate, ream, then thread. Its not important that the threads be dead nuts on, but it is important that the chamber be dead nuts true with the bore.

Indicate several times for an accurate chambering.


/

Hillbilly
07-29-2019, 01:23 PM
Whats so Funny???

Mram10
07-29-2019, 03:42 PM
Iím curious too. Iíve heard of guys indicating multiple times, but canít imagine the barrel moving once toques down in the 4 jaw. I use aluminum wire between the jaws and barrel.

Dave Tooley
07-29-2019, 08:05 PM
If you don't have confidence in your setup you need a different setup.

jackie schmidt
07-29-2019, 09:39 PM
I rough indicate the barrel, rough out the threads to within about .010 inch. I then indicate the barrel and establish the best chamber I can. Then I finish the tenon, set the headspace, cone, etc.

I then go back and check things.

DSM
07-29-2019, 11:16 PM
I have never had a barrel move after dialing in. Every chamber gets checked and the Interapid will let me know how it turned out. If it moves, there is a problem. It's all in the setup and the guy cranking the handles...

Mram10
07-30-2019, 08:32 AM
If you don't have confidence in your setup you need a different setup.

Has nothing to do with confidence. There is always a better way to do something. Just seeing what other guys do

Mram10
07-30-2019, 08:34 AM
I rough indicate the barrel, rough out the threads to within about .010 inch. I then indicate the barrel and establish the best chamber I can. Then I finish the tenon, set the headspace, cone, etc.

I then go back and check things.

Thank you, Sir. Iíve read a lot of threads about your setups and they obviously work.

Butch Lambert
07-30-2019, 05:41 PM
Dave, I guess old M rap showed you. I guess when you have chambered as many barrels as he has you will understand.

Dave Tooley
07-30-2019, 07:07 PM
Dave, I guess old M rap showed you. I guess when you have chambered as many barrels as he has you will understand.

👍👍👍👍

I am humbled in his presence.

retired
07-30-2019, 07:21 PM
and remember

"Best to indicate, ream, then thread. Its not important that the threads be dead nuts on, but it is important that the chamber be dead nuts true with the bore."



👍👍👍👍

I am humbled in his presence.

Mram10
07-31-2019, 08:33 AM
Dave, I guess old M rap showed you. I guess when you have chambered as many barrels as he has you will understand.

You are the worst trash talker, man. Come on, you can do better than that! Iím disappointed in you, yet again

Mram10
07-31-2019, 08:38 AM
👍👍👍👍

I am humbled in his presence.

Thanks Dave, but Iím just a normal guy who puts on his pants one leg at a time like you :)

Butch Lambert
07-31-2019, 11:37 AM
You are the worst trash talker, man. Come on, you can do better than that! Iím disappointed in you, yet again

Man, I'm so sad! Give you a little pat on your butt and you don't know how to respond.

alinwa
07-31-2019, 12:46 PM
I'm so happy to see Mram10 isn't all upset here...... that he'll still let Dave know "he can relax in his august presence, that he's just a normal everyday guy, just like Tooley"

Thanks so much Mram10 for saving some grace for the little people




When you are dead

You don't know you are dead

so it's hard only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.

JerrySharrett
08-01-2019, 05:17 AM
Butch Lambert, Dave Tooley, what do you guys know??

After all you guys have only built a few hundred rifles!!


.

alinwa
08-01-2019, 11:07 AM
Ohhh, and having had many barrels move while gripped with AL.....pads, wire, flatstock and milled rockers.....I will never use AL as a primary gripping surface again.

I've also used CU in these various configurations and am very happy with my latest creation wherein I run tie-wire thru 3/8" chunks of 1/4" copper tubing and after tying it to the jaws I SMASH IT onto the barrel surface. I've used the last set of wires on 7 barrels now and haven't had to replace it (which would entail a cost of 8-11min and approximately $.26)

Speaking of cost....I still have 30-40 70yr-old pennies from my lastest-bestest idea setup (not mine, from Jerry Sharrett) but I just don't have enough hands for Sharrett's method. Man must be an octopus!

LOL



That said, I DO check and while even 1/4" CU wire can move if you're not careful. I've never had pennies nor my newest tubing method move.

retired
08-01-2019, 01:49 PM
put grease on the pennies to hold them while closing the jaws.


Ohhh, and having had many barrels move while gripped with AL.....pads, wire, flatstock and milled rockers.....I will never use AL as a primary gripping surface again.

I've also used CU in these various configurations and am very happy with my latest creation wherein I run tie-wire thru 3/8" chunks of 1/4" copper tubing and after tying it to the jaws I SMASH IT onto the barrel surface. I've used the last set of wires on 7 barrels now and haven't had to replace it (which would entail a cost of 8-11min and approximately $.26)

Speaking of cost....I still have 30-40 70yr-old pennies from my lastest-bestest idea setup (not mine, from Jerry Sharrett) but I just don't have enough hands for Sharrett's method. Man must be an octopus!

LOL



That said, I DO check and while even 1/4" CU wire can move if you're not careful. I've never had pennies nor my newest tubing method move.

Mram10
08-01-2019, 02:59 PM
Butch Lambert, Dave Tooley, what do you guys know??

After all you guys have only built a few hundred rifles!!


.
Iíve built a few hundred rifles ....

Mram10
08-01-2019, 03:02 PM
Back to my original question about indicating. Do most do on initial setup only or periodically indicate throughout?

alinwa
08-01-2019, 03:06 PM
put grease on the pennies to hold them while closing the jaws.



Yeahh, I tried that. Used to use that for thread wires.... didn't work for me on the pennies.

jackie schmidt
08-01-2019, 03:07 PM
Thank you, Sir. Iíve read a lot of threads about your setups and they obviously work.

It's just good Machine shop practice.

Mram10
08-01-2019, 03:16 PM
It's just good Machine shop practice.

Definitely my weakness. I never had any training in a real machine shop. Just learned from watching old gunsmiths. I could use real machine shop training.

Louis.J
08-02-2019, 11:14 AM
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?59097-Jackie-chambering-a-Barrel-(Pictures

SGS
08-02-2019, 11:36 AM
Back to my original question about indicating. Do most do on initial setup only or periodically indicate throughout?

I'll go out on a limb. Most just indicate and then turn the tenon to major diameter, thread, cut recess, and chamber. Those that are very particular about straight chambers and or have reason to suspect that the setup is prone to moving re indicate before pre boring the chamber.

If you want the answer that is right for you, just adopt the practice and see what happens. If you find yourself making adjustments on the second indicating, try other materials for your chuck contact. I agree with Al that aluminum wire is probably not the best choice. Another factor is just how much pressure your machining tool is applying to the tenon. For example: heavy cuts with a larger radius insert, using a parting tool to cut the end of the blank, dull insert, etc. all load the workpiece and might contribute to movement. Remember you have a very small contact area when you cushion the chuck jaws with wire.

alinwa
08-02-2019, 12:16 PM
Increased gripping surface is a laudable goal BUT...... in my case the ability to pivot is paramount.

OD is never concentric with ID

Holes are never bored straight.

Lathes are never straight.

Chucks are never straight.

((I've watched in awe these huge threads on the "Machinist" forums where guys balance and true and align bore and otherwise mutilate their chucks claiming to be making them "straight" ........ I am daily blown away with folks and their fixations on inconsequential details as being "important" all while thinking machines are "rigid" as if size eliminates flex..... it's nearly as stupid as those threads over on the Yukking It Up Around Ye Jollie Woodpile where guys go on and on about "press alignment" and "making straight reloads" because they spun their case 3-times widdershins in their massive align-bored Hollywood Double-Pumper ))

Large gripping surfaces tend to transmit their mis-alignments to the workpiece.

So, for ME, it's a delicate balance betwixt a stress-free swiveling action and adequate gripping force without distorting the squishy barrel. (When the pilot suddenly gets sticky, YOU'RE TOO TIGHT!! .... LOL)

I build an entire rifle around the 1 inch section of the bore that the bullet sees........ I simply don't CARE how far from center the barrel points, it's pointless to care. I do KNOW where it'll hit, just don't care how crooked it is. I use the crookedyness to my advantage, steering the rifle with it.....Yesterday I found out that a certain barrel I'd fitted to a Neuvo a month ago screwed right into another glued-in setup. I screwed 'er together, checked my notes concerning where that barrel pointed on the other gun, eyeballed my (new) index marks and HELD OFF 7 INCHES on my first shot to put the first bullet within an inch of my last group @ 100yds. Just because....."I Could"

Mram10
08-03-2019, 03:02 AM
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?59097-Jackie-chambering-a-Barrel-(Pictures

I downloaded that a while back, thanks

jackie schmidt
08-03-2019, 06:21 AM
I downloaded that a while back, thanks

Wow, itís been 10 years since Gary and I did that. I was a young man:D

Pete Wass
08-03-2019, 10:02 AM
Definitely my weakness. I never had any training in a real machine shop. Just learned from watching old gunsmiths. I could use real machine shop training.

sells a series of Machine Shop Training Videos for not much money. You can find him often on Youtube. He is a retired Shop Teacher and has a couple thousand Youtube videos available, some to buy and some for free. He isn't the only one. There are multiple Shop Practices Youtube videos available for the clicking.

Pete

GeneT
08-03-2019, 10:05 AM
Wow, itís been 10 years since Gary and I did that. I was a young man:D

Has your process changed at all in those 10 years?

GsT

jackie schmidt
08-03-2019, 06:58 PM
Has your process changed at all in those 10 years?

GsT

Not much. I am still using the same Pratt & Whitney Lathe.

Mram10
08-03-2019, 11:05 PM
Pete, thanks. I try to watch as many videos as I can when Iím on the road. Tubalcain is one of my favorites.

Jackie, I hear ya.... those years are flying by

Louis.J
08-04-2019, 11:24 AM
They did indeed Fly on by I didn't realize it was already that far back when it was first posted.

GeneT
08-04-2019, 05:50 PM
Not much. I am still using the same Pratt & Whitney Lathe.

I appreciate your sharing your methods some decade ago, as well as your response to my question.

Cheers!

GsT

Pete Wass
08-10-2019, 10:31 AM
Pete, thanks. I try to watch as many videos as I can when Iím on the road. Tubalcain is one of my favorites.

Jackie, I hear ya.... those years are flying by

of chambering videos as well, The Viper for one and Gordie Gritters for another. Chambering barrels is really pretty easy stuff in the realm of machining, generally. I have done prolly ten now and all of them have shot a lot better than I can. I don't understand why the whole thing is so intimidating to folks and I'm somewhat ham fisted when it comes to machining.

Pete

Mram10
08-10-2019, 10:49 PM
of chambering videos as well, The Viper for one and Gordie Gritters for another. Chambering barrels is really pretty easy stuff in the realm of machining, generally. I have done prolly ten now and all of them have shot a lot better than I can. I don't understand why the whole thing is so intimidating to folks and I'm somewhat ham fisted when it comes to machining.

Pete

Thanks. Watched viper and Gordy videos numerous times. Always trying to learn from guys that do things a bit different. My buddy that retired and taught me said the same. He always laughed and said ďI ainít a machinist. Just know how to turn and thread barrels. It isnít hard.Ē You guys are right

Mram10
08-10-2019, 10:55 PM
Talked to a guy named Alex Wheeler when I was just learning a few years back and he was nice enough to answer a bunch of questions over about an hour conversation. Great guy. Makes high end stuff and he told me, ďdonít worry about most of the bs you hear on the forums. Some guys think theyíre saving the effing world by chambering a rifle.Ē Made me laugh but he stressed simple machining practices.

Mike Bryant
10-30-2019, 01:12 PM
You can put a dial indicator in the bore at any step after the initial indicating in of the bore. If nothing else, it will give you confidence in your setup. Iíve changed my procedure some since I wrote that article in Precision Shooting in the early 90ís. I still indicate in at the projected throat, drill and pre bore out most of the chamber. Whether you cut the tenon, thread and then chamber or chamber first, then cut the tenon and thread doesnít make any difference as long as your setup is solid. Now I usually cut the tenon, thread and chamber in that order. Then check the finished neck and throat with a dial indicator and bore scope after the barrel is chambered and before I take it out of the lathe.

JerrySharrett
10-31-2019, 05:25 AM
Like Mike explains. check the finished product with a borescope if you are doing a benchrest chamber. if the 11/2-2 degree leade is not perfectly centered is probably will not shoot benchrest groups.


.

Bill Leeper
11-02-2019, 11:14 AM
I have always turned and threaded the tenon then chambered. When I first started doing barrel work (1977), turned and threaded the barrel between centers then set up in the steady rest or the four jaw chuck to chamber. I preferred using the steady because the tailstock on the lathe I was using at the time sat a little high and I could compensate with the steady. The method worked well but there were unavoidable compromises made (as there are with any set-up, really). In the mid eighties, I started doing all chambering and threading while set up through the headstock. Since then, I might vary the set-up or the order of doing things from time to time but mostly, I've stayed with it.
Years ago I came up with some very soft iron wire (3/16) and that is what I use to hold the barrel in the 4-jaw. Either that or some 1/8 inch brass rod.
I have seen very few barrels which appeared to be nearly straight and only one which I would have called perfectly straight. By the way, that barrel was wasted on a 300 mag. hunting rifle! Regards, Bill.

Mram10
11-02-2019, 06:34 PM
Thanks guys. They shoot well, but it is hard to compare a light hunting rifle to a br rifle. I like the wire around the barrel trick.

alinwa
11-02-2019, 08:26 PM
Thanks guys. They shoot well, but it is hard to compare a light hunting rifle to a br rifle. I like the wire around the barrel trick.
No it ain't...... I do it all the time


'Course it DOES require a BR Rifle.

OOPS, yer right..... that WOULD BE HARD

for you

skeetlee
11-07-2019, 02:46 PM
I cant seem to figure out how to post pictures bit I've built a chuck that absolutly will not move while machining a barrel. I wish I could share the pics. If someone can help please let me know.
I use a 3/8 fine thread machine screw that I machined the end for a small magnet and a 3/8 steel bearing. I then place a shoe that I machined for the 3/8 bearing with a 3/8 ball mill between the bearing and barrel. The set up is basically a spider chuck but the balls and shoes allow for the barrel to tumble and they are rick solid.

Butch Lambert
11-07-2019, 03:04 PM
I cant seem to figure out how to post pictures bit I've built a chuck that absolutly will not move while machining a barrel. I wish I could share the pics. If someone can help please let me know.
I use a 3/8 fine thread machine screw that I machined the end for a small magnet and a 3/8 steel bearing. I then place a shoe that I machined for the 3/8 bearing with a 3/8 ball mill between the bearing and barrel. The set up is basically a spider chuck but the balls and shoes allow for the barrel to tumble and they are rick solid.

Where have you been Lee? I believe Nez, Bamban, showed photos of his set up that is similar or the same as yours.

Mram10
11-07-2019, 08:08 PM
No it ain't...... I do it all the time


'Course it DOES require a BR Rifle.

OOPS, yer right..... that WOULD BE HARD

for you

Very true. I only own long range hunting rifle since thatís my passion. When I can no longer hike the mountains, I might build a 70 lb 7br (still have the reamer, gauges and components) and sit firmly on a bench with my best friends drinking ice tea and complaining about the news of the day.

alinwa
11-07-2019, 10:15 PM
Very true. I only own long range hunting rifle since thatís my passion. When I can no longer hike the mountains, I might build a 70 lb 7br (still have the reamer, gauges and components) and sit firmly on a bench with my best friends drinking ice tea and complaining about the news of the day.

Just remember DodgeBoy...... the ignore button is your friend, or at least you SAY repeatedly that it's your friend.... but if you actually would like to make human friends, and show them how i'tis, (or learn how it is) you go ahead and make that thar 70lber and then you taken it on out and shoot it with witnesses, at a match.

It'll reset your clock.

There is N O T H I N G to compare with being thoroughly trounced in the real world to change the way you think of accuracy.

I double-dog-DARE you to go out and shoot with some of them Olde Pharts of whom you speak so disparagingly. "complaining about the news of the day" myass....

Mram10
11-08-2019, 07:26 AM
I missed this dodge boy guy knocking older gents! Iím offended! Imo, I have learned the most from the older gents in my life that said very few words. You know, the ones that when you asked them about Korea, youíd have to pull stories from them. The guys that didnít offer up any advice unless asked, but when you finally ask, thy have a short sentence that puts everything into light. I love old guys .... and Iím getting there quick.

Shame on that dodgeball guy! :)

Butch Lambert
11-08-2019, 09:42 AM
I missed this dodge boy guy knocking older gents! Iím offended! Imo, I have learned the most from the older gents in my life that said very few words. You know, the ones that when you asked them about Korea, youíd have to pull stories from them. The guys that didnít offer up any advice unless asked, but when you finally ask, thy have a short sentence that puts everything into light. I love old guys .... and Iím getting there quick.

Shame on that dodgeball guy! :)

;)

Mram10
11-08-2019, 07:24 PM
;)

Whereís the real Butch!? Heís never smiled anywhere close to me!

Richard
11-08-2019, 07:43 PM
I cant seem to figure out how to post pictures bit I've built a chuck that absolutly will not move while machining a barrel. I wish I could share the pics. If someone can help please let me know.
I use a 3/8 fine thread machine screw that I machined the end for a small magnet and a 3/8 steel bearing. I then place a shoe that I machined for the 3/8 bearing with a 3/8 ball mill between the bearing and barrel. The set up is basically a spider chuck but the balls and shoes allow for the barrel to tumble and they are rick solid.

4 or 5 years ago and wouldn't go back to any other. It allows you to chuck up on the taper of a Rem Varmint coutour with no problems. Straight screws were always a problem on the taper section of a bbl. Your right, it's a rock solid way to hold a bbl.

Richard

Al Nyhus
11-10-2019, 08:57 AM
I cant seem to figure out how to post pictures bit I've built a chuck that absolutly will not move while machining a barrel. I wish I could share the pics. If someone can help please let me know.

If you'd like to email me the pics, I can post them for you and you can comment on them. Send me a PM for my email.

Good shootin'. :) -Al

coyotechet
11-10-2019, 12:12 PM
I think this set up is very close to what Skeetlee is using. I made this set up about two years ago. Hold's the barrel stress-free with no movement. Also, have made this same setup for a couple of friends using the Bald Eagle Alum spider

Chet


23108 23109 23110

23111 23112 23113

alinwa
11-10-2019, 02:57 PM
I think this set up is very close to what Skeetlee is using. I made this set up about two years ago. Hold's the barrel stress-free with no movement. Also, have made this same setup for a couple of friends using the Bald Eagle Alum spider

Chet


23108 23109 23110

23111 23112 23113

Dude that's just sick! None of my equipment has ever been that clean. It wasn't that clean in the shipping crate.....A guy could set his sammich on that between bites. Even if it's white bread...

GeneT
11-10-2019, 06:06 PM
I think this set up is very close to what Skeetlee is using. I made this set up about two years ago. Hold's the barrel stress-free with no movement. Also, have made this same setup for a couple of friends using the Bald Eagle Alum spider

Chet


23108 23109 23110

23111 23112 23113

That's more or less what I envisioned with SkeetLee's post, but your execution of the concept is excellent. Nicely done!

GsT

Richard
11-10-2019, 08:19 PM
tidbit of what Chet can do. I have seen alot of the dodads that he makes and it's just amazing.

Richard

Zebra13
11-11-2019, 12:28 PM
Another option for those of you who use spiders. Too bad they're not fine thread...

https://www.mcmaster.com/92432A464

Justin

Butch Lambert
11-11-2019, 02:55 PM
Justin, I see two problems other than the TPI. They have very little area bearing on the barrel and I'm not a fan of the metal in the swivel tips.
Kinda like the old Porsche rocker arm adjusting screws.

Zebra13
11-13-2019, 11:30 AM
Justin, I see two problems other than the TPI. They have very little area bearing on the barrel and I'm not a fan of the metal in the swivel tips.
Kinda like the old Porsche rocker arm adjusting screws.

Butch,

Not a fan of the metal in the tips, or just not a fan of metal tips?

I used these for a spider I just built for the outboard side of my Emco Super 11. I didn't want steel to steel contact, so I epoxied little brass shim stock discs to the bottom of them. I thought about making little brass press on feet for them, but took the easy way for starters. I think they'll be fine for my application where there isn't any stress put on the barrel via machining ops.

I agree with you on small bearing surface...too small for turning and threading, but one could build feet similar to Chet's for them to increase surface area, but you still gotta deal with the coarse thread.

Chet's setup is slick!

Justin

BillBrawand
11-15-2019, 12:24 PM
Have seen emery used beetwen barrel and jaws billb

Butch Lambert
12-04-2019, 04:05 PM
I have always indicated once in a 4 jaw then threaded and ran the reamer. Has anyone had a barrel move on them between those steps?

No, but why are you asking? I've seen it move the bore.

alinwa
12-04-2019, 07:46 PM
No, but why are you asking? I've seen it move the bore.

Butch this guy's some sort of bot ...... he's just copied some of the OP and stuffed some spammage in the middle (the part you took out)

There are several of them on the board right now

GeneT
12-05-2019, 06:41 AM
No, but why are you asking? I've seen it move the bore.

Can you elaborate Butch? Do you mean the clamping pressure moving the bore, or something else?

GsT

Butch Lambert
12-05-2019, 09:55 AM
Can you elaborate Butch? Do you mean the clamping pressure moving the bore, or something else?

GsT
Gene, I've seen guys chambering in the headstock put a slight bend in the barrel tightening the jaws on a 4 jaw chuck. This is the reason that a lot of people are holding the chuck side with other methods.

GeneT
12-05-2019, 02:40 PM
Gene, I've seen guys chambering in the headstock put a slight bend in the barrel tightening the jaws on a 4 jaw chuck. This is the reason that a lot of people are holding the chuck side with other methods.

Gotcha. Thanks for the response.

GsT

Bnhpr
12-28-2019, 07:13 PM
I Indicate,turn, thread, check it didnt move, chamber.

Butch Lambert
12-29-2019, 04:00 PM
I Indicate,turn, thread, check it didnt move, chamber.


Kinda like you true receivers?

Bnhpr
12-29-2019, 06:13 PM
Kinda like you true receivers?

Whatís your procedure Butch bunghole?

Or are you too busy chasing people off this site to get to your shop?

JerrySharrett
12-30-2019, 05:27 AM
Whatís your procedure Butch bunghole?

Or are you too busy chasing people off this site to get to your shop?



Was this called for???

.

Louis.J
12-30-2019, 02:39 PM
Oh Hell No!
And very undeserving for it to be directed at a true gentleman who is just trying to help out.

Richard
01-01-2020, 11:29 AM
for the new year!

You guys remember the show "Miss Congenality" with Sandra Bullock??

When asked what she wanted in the pageant??? World Peace!! How about that for the new year in the forums!!

Happy new year and "World Peace":o

Richard

Mram10
01-02-2020, 12:04 AM
Was this called for???

.

I would have responded the same way :) Butch, Al and others can be very rude at times. Weíve had our problems. There is a reason itís the same few guys that post here and others go to other sites.

If I had Jackieís phone number, I probably wouldnít frequent the site as much :)

alinwa
01-02-2020, 01:52 AM
I would have responded the same way :) Butch, Al and others can be very rude at times. Weíve had our problems. There is a reason itís the same few guys that post here and others go to other sites.

If I had Jackieís phone number, I probably wouldnít frequent the site as much :)


I just had to commemorate this in case he reconsiders ;)


MAGA!



ooops

wfcustom
01-02-2020, 10:52 AM
for the new year!

You guys remember the show "Miss Congenality" with Sandra Bullock??

When asked what she wanted in the pageant??? World Peace!! How about that for the new year in the forums!!

Happy new year and "World Peace":o

Richard

As my recently departed good friend Bob Dorton used to say "Some people worry about stuff too much"
It was his way of telling people not to take themselves to seriously.
We no longer live in a civil society, I actually got a lecture the other day for holding a door open for a women.
Personally for 2020 I'm just going to "Visualize whirled peas" it takes me back to the 60's :cool:
Happy New Year to all even those without a sense of humor.:rolleyes:
Greg

Louis.J
01-02-2020, 02:19 PM
Amazing a couple of these folks ask a reasonable question! And then they argue over the answer they get back from some of most knowledgeable and friendly gents? Makes one wonder who is actually being an Ass it surely isn't Al or Butch could it be themselves.

alinwa
01-02-2020, 03:28 PM
Ohhh c'mon now Louis..... Butch Lambert is a total prick! He makes a real pest of himself calling me at the shop to help me wire a mill, calling to offer clear explanations re VFD's and DRO's for my old South Bend H10 .... AND the Bridgeport, calling AGAIN to offer his services in ordering some barrels, calling and texting and PM'ing to follow up about his tuners, his coaxial rest tops......


Yeahh, he's like a coon in the garbage can ol Butch..... just herkin' and jerkin' on the old chain and disrupting my life no end.....


jeeepers, i ain't NEVER called to bug him with MY expertise.....


LOL

Mram10
01-03-2020, 02:16 AM
Amazing a couple of these folks ask a reasonable question! And then they argue over the answer they get back from some of most knowledgeable and friendly gents? Makes one wonder who is actually being an Ass it surely isn't Al or Butch could it be themselves.

You can defend your buddies, but they were very rude to me numerous times for disagreeing. Not that you care, but you should be informed on their transgressions before you blast others.

Louis.J
01-07-2020, 12:05 PM
I have been following all of the discussions and innocent you are not.

sdean
01-07-2020, 04:17 PM
I have been following all of the discussions and innocent you are not.

Iím with Louis it take two. You should really try and ignore if you get your feelings hurt.

Mram10
01-07-2020, 08:23 PM
Start from the beginning and see why Iím not a fan. Or donít. Another ignore on my list like sidney above

Louis.J
01-10-2020, 01:09 PM
I would encourage you to go back to the start and re-read all of your own posts I have. You are condemning some of the good folks here of what you yourself are guilty of just go back and have alook.

alinwa
01-10-2020, 01:41 PM
I would encourage you to go back to the start and re-read all of your own posts I have. You are condemning some of the good folks here of what you yourself are guilty of just go back and have alook.


Ohhh there ya' go again applying REASON and LOGIC and calm rational thought!!!


Louis, it's called a "persecution complex"..... certain emotional types are captured by it, certain cultures typify, embrace and live by it. AND, to further muddy the ointment, pointing it out will get you a verbal finger-wagging from all sorts of OTHER do-gooders, mostly state workers who've misunderstood too many HR classes .

I simply acknowledge it and no longer respond with reason as a person hanging on a martyr's cross is incapable of reason, and their perspective is always "higher than thou" :)

It's PHYSICS...... they're ABOVE the rest of us ;)


LOL



(for all of you from Rio Linda, or The Middle American Heartbone, that's a form of HUMOR, look it up)

Louis.J
01-11-2020, 01:07 PM
" Pretty funny that the three responses are all on my ignore list." If you donít have an answer, than keep your mouths shut.

Mram10 you might want to go and re-check your Ignore Settings that feature doesn't appear to be working for you?

Bnhpr
01-18-2020, 05:29 PM
I put together a little data after chambering 6 barrels in the past couple weeks. Here is my setup and what I found.

1. Using Iscar tooling, the force on the barrel was moving it a bit in the chuck. Nothing moved more than .002Ē , but it did move. I ground a tool with HSS and got much less movement.

2. Drilling out the chamber moved it the most. Chatter is the enemp here. I checked the bore post drilling, and it moved .001 to .003, while the outside of the barre in the unturned surface moved <.001Ē

1 6.5 creedmoor Rem vt taper, moved .0015Ē
2 6.5 creedmoor Heavy sporter barrel .000Ē
3 35 When heavy sporter .002Ē
4 300 wsm in hunter class .000Ē
5 270 wsm in rem vt .001Ē
6 30 br in Hunter class .000Ē

conclusion is, The lighter barrels move more in my setup, and everything needs to be checked post turning. Reducing chatter reduces movement, and using HSS over insert.

Ben

alinwa
01-18-2020, 08:00 PM
I put together a little data after chambering 6 barrels in the past couple weeks. Here is my setup and what I found.

1. Using Iscar tooling, the force on the barrel was moving it a bit in the chuck. Nothing moved more than .002Ē , but it did move. I ground a tool with HSS and got much less movement.

2. Drilling out the chamber moved it the most. Chatter is the enemp here. I checked the bore post drilling, and it moved .001 to .003, while the outside of the barre in the unturned surface moved <.001Ē

1 6.5 creedmoor Rem vt taper, moved .0015Ē
2 6.5 creedmoor Heavy sporter barrel .000Ē
3 35 When heavy sporter .002Ē
4 300 wsm in hunter class .000Ē
5 270 wsm in rem vt .001Ē
6 30 br in Hunter class .000Ē

conclusion is, The lighter barrels move more in my setup, and everything needs to be checked post turning. Reducing chatter reduces movement, and using HSS over insert.

Ben


this is why I quit using AL

JerrySharrett
01-19-2020, 07:03 AM
i put together a little data after chambering 6 barrels in the past couple weeks. Here is my setup and what i found.

1. Using iscar tooling, the force on the barrel was moving it a bit in the chuck. Nothing moved more than .002Ē , but it did move. I ground a tool with hss and got much less movement.

2. Drilling out the chamber moved it the most. Chatter is the enemp here. I checked the bore post drilling, and it moved .001 to .003, while the outside of the barre in the unturned surface moved <.001Ē

1 6.5 creedmoor rem vt taper, moved .0015Ē
2 6.5 creedmoor heavy sporter barrel .000Ē
3 35 when heavy sporter .002Ē
4 300 wsm in hunter class .000Ē
5 270 wsm in rem vt .001Ē
6 30 br in hunter class .000Ē

conclusion is, the lighter barrels move more in my setup, and everything needs to be checked post turning. Reducing chatter reduces movement, and using hss over insert.

Ben


yep,they will move



.

Mram10
01-19-2020, 09:44 AM
I put together a little data after chambering 6 barrels in the past couple weeks. Here is my setup and what I found.

1. Using Iscar tooling, the force on the barrel was moving it a bit in the chuck. Nothing moved more than .002Ē , but it did move. I ground a tool with HSS and got much less movement.

2. Drilling out the chamber moved it the most. Chatter is the enemp here. I checked the bore post drilling, and it moved .001 to .003, while the outside of the barre in the unturned surface moved <.001Ē

1 6.5 creedmoor Rem vt taper, moved .0015Ē
2 6.5 creedmoor Heavy sporter barrel .000Ē
3 35 When heavy sporter .002Ē
4 300 wsm in hunter class .000Ē
5 270 wsm in rem vt .001Ē
6 30 br in Hunter class .000Ē

conclusion is, The lighter barrels move more in my setup, and everything needs to be checked post turning. Reducing chatter reduces movement, and using HSS over insert.

Ben

Iíd like to have seen how you ran the test. That is great to know. Thanks for taking the time

Bnhpr
01-20-2020, 06:39 AM
Iíd like to have seen how you ran the test. That is great to know. Thanks for taking the time

Itís not really a test. I just collected data from my normal checks after threading and cutting the bolt interface.

I put the indicator on three times, during barrel work, and once, facing off the action.

FWIW, the newer actions, the ones with the bar code, have been spot on. Iím not sure what remington has done, but their dimensional control is better it seems.

Ben

Bnhpr
01-20-2020, 06:42 AM
this is why I quit using AL

Using copper?

alinwa
01-20-2020, 02:20 PM
Using copper?

Yes.

I have copper wire in sizes from 12ga to 4Ga and have been kinda' satisfied but have had problems with shearing the smaller diameters and of course the 1/4" stuff is rough to deal with....so for the last year I've been trying copper another way..... copper line or tubing.

I figgered clearance is clearance so's I don't _need_ the 1/4" wire

So I tried some various wall thicknesses of 1/4" copper line

VICTORY!

1/2" long hunk of 1/4" copper line, thread it onto a 6-8" long piece of twist-tie wire ("bread bag twistie", "tomato tie wire") and use it over and over. NEVER moves, rock solid, and when you need a new one, it takes about 3 minutes to make one.

Best Ever

Plus it can't hook your sleeve nor nick your knuckle

Bnhpr
01-20-2020, 04:55 PM
Yes.

I have copper wire in sizes from 12ga to 4Ga and have been kinda' satisfied but have had problems with shearing the smaller diameters and of course the 1/4" stuff is rough to deal with....so for the last year I've been trying copper another way..... copper line or tubing.

I figgered clearance is clearance so's I don't _need_ the 1/4" wire

So I tried some various wall thicknesses of 1/4" copper line

VICTORY!

1/2" long hunk of 1/4" copper line, thread it onto a 6-8" long piece of twist-tie wire ("bread bag twistie", "tomato tie wire") and use it over and over. NEVER moves, rock solid, and when you need a new one, it takes about 3 minutes to make one.

Best Ever

Plus it can't hook your sleeve nor nick your knuckle


I'm going to try that, I dont think T6061 is tough enough.

I've come full circle with my indication, now back to ptg rods for rough in, short stylus after facing off, indicating off the grooves. for final. I'm getting more requests for a .625x24 threaded muzzle, and I'm using just the PTG rods once I flip the barrel around.

I was using copper shim stock on that setup, maybe wire is better? Of course, the dia varies barrel to barrel with contour.

Ben

alinwa
01-20-2020, 07:18 PM
I'm going to try that, I dont think T6061 is tough enough.

I've come full circle with my indication, now back to ptg rods for rough in, short stylus after facing off, indicating off the grooves. for final. I'm getting more requests for a .625x24 threaded muzzle, and I'm using just the PTG rods once I flip the barrel around.

I was using copper shim stock on that setup, maybe wire is better? Of course, the dia varies barrel to barrel with contour.

Ben

I bought a little roll of the green tomater stake wire at a box store, it comes with a cutter right on the package. snip a hunk off, run it through the piece of tubing, SMASH the tubing down tight with the 4-jaw which crimps it onto the wire, then the wires are easily wrapped onto the chuck jaws and tucked out of the way. Wnem done, throw 'em in the drawer and re-use several times until the twistie tie snaps.

Rubicon Prec.
01-20-2020, 10:21 PM
If you don't have confidence in your setup you need a different setup.

Best post in this entire thread.

RP Rifles
01-23-2020, 11:46 AM
This has been a game changer for action work as well as for aligning a barrel for chambering.

Rubicon Prec.
01-23-2020, 12:38 PM
This has been a game changer for action work as well as for aligning a barrel for chambering.

I don't use one, but the TBAS seams like one of the best solution to all the problems people are trying to solve. I like it because there is no way you are "bending" the barrel into submission.

Butch Lambert
01-23-2020, 02:21 PM
This has been a game changer for action work as well as for aligning a barrel for chambering.

I see a 6 jaw chuck, what am I not seeing? How do you indicate your barrel or action?

Rubicon Prec.
01-23-2020, 03:19 PM
I see a 6 jaw chuck, what am I not seeing? How do you indicate your barrel or action?

The TBAS uses a set-true style mount but also has a ball/socket semi-sphere kind of deal to adjust angle. You can use any scroll chuck or collet chuck on it for work holding.

alinwa
01-23-2020, 03:22 PM
This has been a game changer for action work as well as for aligning a barrel for chambering.

How do you grip non-parallel surfaces? Like a typical BR barrel?

Butch Lambert
01-23-2020, 03:42 PM
I just saw a movie of it on a Haas TL-1 lathe. I'm not crazy about the way it indicates the barrel, Gordy method kinda?

RP Rifles
01-23-2020, 10:29 PM
You use a duel changeable pilot to get it close then you swap over to a long stem indicator and align the bore area as well. U donít have to pull and push the whole barrel with a spider chuck on the rear you can use that just to stabilize the barrel. Same with trueing an action No need for another fixture to hold action u just chuck it up and dial it in with the chuck very fast and no stress on the action twisting

alinwa
01-24-2020, 12:48 AM
OK, not to diss on the TBAS, but the only reason I don't own one is because I can't for the life of me figure out how to secure any of my work in it.

GeneT
01-24-2020, 02:52 PM
OK, not to diss on the TBAS, but the only reason I don't own one is because I can't for the life of me figure out how to secure any of my work in it.

I haven't tried it, but Steve Acker once demonstrated putting a bearing surface on a barrel by installing a sleeve attached with bondo that he then trued between centers before using it as a bearing surface for a steady rest (IIRC, it's been a while). He later heated the sleeve with a propane torch to soften and remove the sleeve and bondo. Too much effort? Who knows? Will the bondo expand and impart stress to the barrel? That's a question I'm interested in answering.

GsT

Bnhpr
01-25-2020, 05:31 AM
Itís unlikely epoxy would put stress in the barrel, especially over a short distance. We use epoxy (chockfast) to bed large diesel engines, for that reason.

This issue I would have with that setup, is getting the bore in the center of all that.

Bnhpr
01-25-2020, 05:57 AM
OK, not to diss on the TBAS, but the only reason I don't own one is because I can't for the life of me figure out how to secure any of my work in it.

You bolt a chuck to it. The TBAS is just an adjustable intermediate between your chuck and headstock.

It allows you to indicate a bore using a 3 or 6 jaw.

You arguably still need the copper wire, because you can still stress the barrel if the OD and ID are not perfectly concentric.

Also, it obviously increases the distance through the headstock.

Rubicon Prec.
01-25-2020, 08:37 AM
You bolt a chuck to it. The TBAS is just an adjustable intermediate between your chuck and headstock.

It allows you to indicate a bore using a 3 or 6 jaw.

You arguably still need the copper wire, because you can still stress the barrel if the OD and ID are not perfectly concentric.

Also, it obviously increases the distance through the headstock.

You shouldnít need anything between the chuck jaws and the barrel shank when working on the chamber end. The TBAS is adjustable for angle and concentricity. Iím nut sure how people are holding the taper when working on the muzzle end, but I suspect they are making tapered bushings to match.

alinwa
01-25-2020, 02:20 PM
You shouldnít need anything between the chuck jaws and the barrel shank when working on the chamber end. The TBAS is adjustable for angle and concentricity. Iím nut sure how people are holding the taper when working on the muzzle end, but I suspect they are making tapered bushings to match.

Huhh???

You know this? That the chuck jaws swivel?

And if so..... how do lock the jaws to the taper before you jack the chuck?

I don't think you even grasp the problem....

"tapered bushings" myass.....


As I said, I WOULD ORDER ONE TOMORROW..... if it could hold a barrel properly.

I don't "attempt to reset the centerline on factory actions"..... and I make dies on a collet setup....

BTW I video'd a barrel setup last nite, got a friggin' STRAIGHT barrel.....

sucks

wasted 4 hrs LOL

alinwa
01-25-2020, 02:24 PM
You bolt a chuck to it. The TBAS is just an adjustable intermediate between your chuck and headstock.

It allows you to indicate a bore using a 3 or 6 jaw.

You arguably still need the copper wire, because you can still stress the barrel if the OD and ID are not perfectly concentric.

Also, it obviously increases the distance through the headstock.


Yeahh.... chuck jaws are somewhat parallel, they're designed to mash down on parallel surfaces.

I don't work with parallel surfaces, with barrels....

I have no idea to what you're referring with the "you arguably still need copper wire"

alinwa
01-25-2020, 02:27 PM
BTW, id and od are almost NEVER concentric..... I videotaped a setup last nite, picked a barrel out of the box and the friggin thing WAS concentric, and straight.... and consequently my video shows nothing useful! Except that Krieger barrels are "perfect" just chuck em up between centers and hack away :) :)

Rubicon Prec.
01-25-2020, 03:01 PM
Huhh???

You know this? That the chuck jaws swivel?

And if so..... how do lock the jaws to the taper before you jack the chuck?

I don't think you even grasp the problem....

"tapered bushings" myass.....


The entire chuck "swivels" and the backing plate is a set-tru style. If you make a split bushing that is parallel on the OD and tapered to match the ID then grab it with a chuck or collet, it will hold. The chamber end is a non-issue because it's parallel, at least on the barrels I typically work with.

I think I grasp the "problem" very well.

Edit: tapered bushings, especially with the taper working away from the cutting force is certainly not as good as grabbing a parallel surface. I found I could push the barrel back if I hogged it with a WNMG 32 like I would bar stock. I now use a VBMT 331 600 sfm, .010 ipr, .015" doc and haven't had an issue since. I can guarantee it is far better than one would get with a spider chuck.

alinwa
01-25-2020, 03:21 PM
We don't do similar work...... same planet. different worlds.

I'd glue the stinkin' thing into a pipe looong before I'd try "match" tapers for effectual clamping

You wanna' talk about bending barrels! Putting things in tension! This presumption that od's and tapers are useful to index from just doesn't fit my worldview


sorry

And saving the entire shank just to set up on? Using a barrel with a long shank? I can't normally afford all that mass wadded up near the action ring



etc



etc




As I said..... let's just stick with "it doesn't work for me", I don't need convincing.



In the same way that 40yrs of my wife telling me "just try it, it's good" doesn't somehow turn broccoli into food

(I tell her "my food EATS your food".... but she still tries to tell me brussel sprouts are "food")


and I STILL haven't eaten a vench'table since't I left home....

Rubicon Prec.
01-25-2020, 03:29 PM
I'd glue the stinkin' thing into a pipe looong before I'd try "match" tapers for effectual clamping

You wanna' talk about bending barrels! Putting things in tension! This presumption that od's and tapers are useful to index from just doesn't fit my worldview


I'm really confused how you think this would even remotely bend a barrel? And using the TBAS has nothing to do with indexing off the OD of the barrel. I don't think you understand how it works.

alinwa
01-25-2020, 03:30 PM
I'm really confused how you think this would even remotely bend a barrel? And using the TBAS has nothing to do with indexing off the OD of the barrel. I don't think you understand how it works.

I know

Mram10
01-25-2020, 09:05 PM
I'm really confused how you think this would even remotely bend a barrel? And using the TBAS has nothing to do with indexing off the OD of the barrel. I don't think you understand how it works.
Iím interested in this. Iíve not heard of the tbas before. Great explanations. I appreciate you trying to teach us something new.

Louis.J
01-26-2020, 03:09 PM
Here is the link to the true bore system. He also has several setup video's showing how it's used. Also make sure it starts at the beginning.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=86xlH0ZOya4&t=18s

Butch Lambert
01-26-2020, 03:29 PM
Here is the link to the true bore system. He also has several setup video's showing how it's used. Also make sure it starts at the beginning.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=86xlH0ZOya4&t=18s



Louis, are you indicating by the Gordy method or how?

Louis.J
01-26-2020, 05:30 PM
Butch I am indicating with guage pins and then re-checking it with indicating the grooves.

Bnhpr
01-26-2020, 05:57 PM
You shouldnít need anything between the chuck jaws and the barrel shank when working on the chamber end. The TBAS is adjustable for angle and concentricity. Iím nut sure how people are holding the taper when working on the muzzle end, but I suspect they are making tapered bushings to match.

Agreed, if the bore is concentric to the outside of the barrel, or uniformly eccentric at muzzle and breech. Unfortunately, thats not what I have seen with most blanks.

GeneT
01-26-2020, 07:32 PM
Agreed, if the bore is concentric to the outside of the barrel, or uniformly eccentric at muzzle and breech. Unfortunately, thats not what I have seen with most blanks.

No, the TBAS is particularly designed to take out that non-concentricity as well as lineal misalignment. If the bore were concentric to the outside and straight, a regular chuck would do (well, you'd have the gripping problem...).

GsT

Rubicon Prec.
01-26-2020, 09:42 PM
We don't do similar work...... same planet. different worlds.

I'd glue the stinkin' thing into a pipe looong before I'd try "match" tapers for effectual clamping

You wanna' talk about bending barrels! Putting things in tension! This presumption that od's and tapers are useful to index from just doesn't fit my worldview

Do you realize that the TBAS has nothing other than gravity acting on the opposite end of the barrel that youíre working on? Itís not exact, but itís probably the setup that closest matches the way a barrel will actually hang off the receiver.



And saving the entire shank just to set up on? Using a barrel with a long shank? I can't normally afford all that mass wadded up near the action ring


I guess we work on different types of rifles then. Both of which are not matching this pageís title. Buy, FWIW, Iíve built rifles in the 8lb range with scope that are very accurate with a parallel shank long enough to grab with a chuck. That same rifle will probably be used to take critters at very long ranges.



As I said..... let's just stick with "it doesn't work for me", I don't need convincing.


Iím thinking thatís because you donít quite grasp the concept of the TBAS. No harm. But If holding the part is your main issue, I can promise there are ways to hold a barrel far more securely, and far more stress free than between 4 points at each end (regardless if itís a spider chuck or 4J with a copper wire ring contact).



In the same way that 40yrs of my wife telling me "just try it, it's good" doesn't somehow turn broccoli into food

(I tell her "my food EATS your food".... but she still tries to tell me brussel sprouts are "food")


and I STILL haven't eaten a vench'table since't I left home....


How many years were you building rifles before you discovered the ďGordy methodĒ?

Donít get me wrong, Iím not crapping on any method. Every. Single. Method. Has flaws. We use the method that makes the most sense to us, with the tools we have available. I donít think thereís a shooter out there that could determine the method used to chamber on target using a blind taste test. If that shooter exists, Iíd love to meet him and pick his brain.

Rubicon Prec.
01-26-2020, 09:59 PM
No, the TBAS is particularly designed to take out that non-concentricity as well as lineal misalignment. If the bore were concentric to the outside and straight, a regular chuck would do (well, you'd have the gripping problem...).

GsT

Yep:

alinwa
01-27-2020, 08:44 PM
Do you realize that the TBAS has nothing other than gravity acting on the opposite end of the barrel that youíre working on?




Of course I do..... I would still use a spider at the left end to stabilize but only to take up slack






I guess we work on different types of rifles then.





Well, different standards anyways.....





Iím thinking thatís because you donít quite grasp the concept of the TBAS. No harm.

And I'm thinking I've been hearing this line since I was old enough to ask questions..... and well over a half-century of asking the hard questions has taught me exactly what the phrases "you don't understand" and "you can't understand" really means. I deal with engineers every day, for the last 40yrs.... I hire them to validate MY ideas....and have two sons who are successful mechanical engineers out in the real world working for internationally renowned companies..... I am personal friends with many others.....I "grasp it" quite well, Thank You Very Much

And, machinists, mechanics, engineers, doctors, contractors.... I FIRE them when they're only average, when they can't grasp my questions.


I spend my life searching for those 1/1000th-of-a-percentile people who actually U N D E R S T A N D their respective crafts... "building to spec" doesn't impress me, "improving on spec" is all I care about. The few engineers I ask questions of are first of all curious, acute and keenly proficient, even obsessive...... and they NEVER say "you couldn't understand"...

I currently HAVE the best way to dial in and hold a barrel stress-free. Accurate, repeatable, and more importantly a system which withstands my rigorous back-checks.

You've explained what you think is "good" and "adequate" and even "best" in your view..... I simply disagree! :)

3 times I've actually had the "3D BuckChuck" in my cart to buy and 3 times I've set back and asked myself "WHAT would you possibly use this for???" And 3 times I've emptied my cart... because "dialing in a useful barrel" just ain't in it.



........

I can promise there are ways to hold a barrel far more securely, and far more stress free than between 4 points at each end (regardless if itís a spider chuck or 4J with a copper wire ring contact)............






See, here's where it always ends..... "you can promise me"........

But like most (insert favorite pejorative here), you can't EXPLAIN nuttin, just promise.

I HAVE a way, and an explanation of why, I even have several hours of video showing it in action.

And I have explained it repeatedly here on BRC, and it causes nothing but arguments, and when I WATCH a guy do it, or they EXPLAIN how they do it, it soon becomes apparent that they simply DO NOT understand what Gordie came up with.






Yes, if I do ever use one of them jackable chucks (I'll end up talking myself into one eventually) to dial in a barrel..... I WILL epoxy a pipe onto it to do it. Ain't no Bondo in it for this cat, I be DEVCON that thing together. I actually do that a lot, fixture with Hysol and other epoxies....

alinwa
01-27-2020, 08:48 PM
...... (well, you'd have the gripping problem...).

GsT


Thank you Gene..... YOU get it....

I'm not dis'ing on the freakin' chuck! I went to his youtube videos YEARS ago and complimented him effusively...

Rubicon Prec.
01-27-2020, 09:09 PM
RE: gripping problem with a collet or jaw chuck on a tapered part.

Rubicon Prec.
01-27-2020, 09:14 PM
RE: gripping problem with a collet or jaw chuck on a tapered part. 2.0

alinwa
01-27-2020, 09:55 PM
yeahh..... I use collets to make ferrules for pool cues, I suppose they'd be sufficient for folks who believe that fiberglass wrapped barrels "shoot"


You clearly are made happy with your method.... and it makes your clients happy.....

As I said, I Get It :)

I ain't sellin' nuttin'!

Rubicon Prec.
01-27-2020, 10:15 PM
yeahh..... I use collets to make ferrules for pool cues, I suppose they'd be sufficient for folks who believe that fiberglass wrapped barrels "shoot"


You clearly are made happy with your method.... and it makes your clients happy.....

As I said, I Get It :)

I ain't sellin' nuttin'!


Has nothing to do with collets, even though far more complicated parts, with tighter tolerances, are made using them, than someone cutting a rifle chamber on a Chinese lathe in their garage.

And FWIW, it sure seems youíve been trying to sell the ďGordyĒ method in most of your posts. I donít think Iíve even stated what method I use. Nor would I try to sell anyone on it. Maybe I am using the ďGordyĒ method, or a variant of it?

Simply put, a bushing cut to match the taper of a barrel held in a jaw chuck or collet is far more secure and stress free than holding a barrel between 8 jacking screws.

alinwa
01-28-2020, 02:56 AM
Has nothing to do with collets, even though far more complicated parts, with tighter tolerances, are made using them, than someone cutting a rifle chamber on a Chinese lathe in their garage.

And FWIW, it sure seems youíve been trying to sell the ďGordyĒ method in most of your posts. I donít think Iíve even stated what method I use. Nor would I try to sell anyone on it. Maybe I am using the ďGordyĒ method, or a variant of it?

Simply put, a bushing cut to match the taper of a barrel held in a jaw chuck or collet is far more secure and stress free than holding a barrel between 8 jacking screws.

Oh I'm not selling it, I just think Gordy came up with a good solution for dealing with crooked bores..... and more importantly, for making identical chambers.....so good that YES, I did buy a Chinese lathe for my garage based entirely on his method. I couldn't get anyone else to do it, Gordy was out two years on barreling jobs, so I bought a lathe.

And I believe strongly in giving credit where credit is due.

I would never cut a tapered bushing to hold a barrel, even with a jackable chuck. So yeahh, we disagree :)

Now, you show me a jackable chuck which will grip a taper and I'll buy one. And I'll give you credit for showing me a better way.

And I do have an American made collet machine, in my "garage"

And as far as "cutting good chambers"...... I've been buying my own reamers for 35yrs and sending them to gunsmiths all over the country. And then having to buy a sizing die for each barrel. I've got 9 worn out barrels in the bin all cut with the same reamer, 4 different gunsmiths, they all "shoot" (or "shot") , some better than others, but I also have 3 different dies and a stack of Skip's shims and a notebook of settings......Now I can (did, in the last match, trying out a different gun during a relay) interchange brass from barrel to barrel full length sizing every time. The 56 cases I'm loading tomorrow have already been used in 5 different barrels....

I did pop the neck off of a case a couple weeks ago. It only had 18 firings on it. In only 3 barrels.

And the neck came out with a cleaning brush.

alinwa
01-28-2020, 01:19 PM
Has nothing to do with collets, even though far more complicated parts, with tighter tolerances, are made using them, than someone cutting a rifle chamber on a Chinese lathe in their garage.



I'm just saving this to remind myself...... "Al, would you just SHUT UP already? This isn't fruitful discussion"

:)

I know better....

alinwa
01-28-2020, 01:22 PM
BTW, this is not and never has been "about you" Rubi..... I'm sorry to have been drawn along in my passion to present information to the masses.

This is an information forum, and while I enjoy passionate and personal discourse, The Others.......


don't




apologies all

Rubicon Prec.
01-28-2020, 02:51 PM
BTW, this is not and never has been "about you" Rubi..... I'm sorry to have been drawn along in my passion to present information to the masses.

This is an information forum, and while I enjoy passionate and personal discourse, The Others.......


don't




apologies all

Oh, I am fully aware it is not about me. In fact, I make a point not to say what method I use. My point is, and always will be, people should understand why they are using a method, and check it to see if there are inherent flaws with it, such as bending the barrel or falsely thinking they are timing a barrel with a muzzle up/down attitude.

If you set up a barrel to you are ready to chamber, put a Sharpie mark at the muzzle end and chamber end, run a DTI on those Sharpie marks, document the readings, mark the high spot, then remove the barrel and reset it up so you are ready to chamber again, if your reading at the Sharpie marks are not what they were the first time, you ARE bending the barrel in your setup.

Does bending a barrel really matter? In reality, probably not much. But, if you are bending a barrel, are you fooling yourself that you method is really any better than working between centers/using the reamer as a center?

I'd rather people think for themselves and understand why they are doing something, rather than going in blind because the internet said this is how to do something.

Louis.J
01-28-2020, 06:23 PM
Did you mean Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels Al.

alinwa
01-28-2020, 09:42 PM
Did you mean Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels Al.

LOL, sure.....

I mean "resin painted barrels with some sort of fibers in"

I refuse to dignify them with "Carbon Fiber Wrapped" because that gives a sense of panache to a stupid concept.

I say "CF barrel" in the same tone as I say "EV transportation"

alinwa
01-29-2020, 01:14 AM
Oh, I am fully aware it is not about me. ...........

.............I'd rather people think for themselves and understand why they are doing something, rather than going in blind because the internet said this is how to do something.

Well thank you for that. I've been on this forum since the early '90's and have pissed off a lot of people by being frank.

NOT by being RIGHT..... just for speaking my mind.

I 'felt' like you were getting a little warm around the edges based on your reply but am seriously glad for your explanation in this last post.





I got over 5hrs of video.....in the can

alinwa
01-30-2020, 03:47 PM
I want to thank you ;)

You spurred me to start a project (reluctantly) which has morphed into something very useful..... I've learned some stuff, particularly about the efficacy of 'nutting' barrels which blew me away. Unfortunately for this thread the stuff has absolutely nothing to do with "bending or binding barrels, or putting them into tension in the lathe" but it's taught me something nonetheless.

It's been worth it after all. "I'm a better person because of it"

Might even have "built me some character" LOL

Soooo..... off work early again (actually, just abandoned my crews and am off playing the Boss Card) and I'm going down to video some more..... I be SHOW some barrel bending in the fixture, be SHOW deflection and measure it quantitatively and probably SHOW my findings re barrel nuts....

Meantime, let it be said, Gordy Gritters is Da' MAN!! in my book...... this stuff repeats like Clockwork Orange ....... like bad fish..... OVER and OVER..... only it leaves a pleasant taste....

I be e'CITED!