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TrxR
03-12-2019, 07:19 PM
Going to be ordering a Borden BRM for a short range for score heavy benchrest rifle. Will be doing a pillar bed and probably glued as well. Caliber will be 30br or 30 major. My question is should I get a recoil lug or not?

Whats the opinions on this? Does it being glued or not make a difference wether a lug is needed or not?

Thanks

FBecigneul
03-14-2019, 10:39 AM
Ask Jim Borden what he thinks.
Iíve been shooting.30 BR for a long time with no recoil lug on my Panda, Six stock, HV rifle with no issues. Jim Borden will steer you right and wonít sell you anything you donít need.

mwezell
03-14-2019, 01:26 PM
The rear tang is the lug but on a glue and screw, the whole action is a recoil lug.

retired
03-14-2019, 03:21 PM
i have a lug on a hv 30br.
it shoots better than i do
bedded, torqued, but not glued
might be an issue on a light gun

jackie schmidt
03-14-2019, 06:48 PM
I have been shooting my 30BR for years with just a glue in.

It's a Farley Action in a Robertson Stock.

If you do glue in only, a good tip is to bead blast (Garnet), the lower portion of the action.

Well, let me rephrase that. It's a good idea untill you have to remove the action from the stock.

wfcustom
03-15-2019, 12:03 PM
Well, let me rephrase that. It's a good idea untill you have to remove the action from the stock.[/QUOTE]

:D So true! the better job you do the bigger problem it is to get it out down the road.

That said I pillar bed all my own Comp rifles just so I can tinker with them any time I want to.
I did have Alex Sitman pillar my F-Class stock since he was doing the woodwork, (beautiful piece of Bastogne) and he did a fantastic job.
I was told once by an old time BR smith that a proper pillar job was as good as a glue-in, the main reason for glue-ins was to keep
the owner from screwing up the bedding taking the action in and out!::p
Greg

mwezell
03-15-2019, 04:56 PM
Well, let me rephrase that. It's a good idea untill you have to remove the action from the stock.

:D So true! the better job you do the bigger problem it is to get it out down the road.

That said I pillar bed all my own Comp rifles just so I can tinker with them any time I want to.
I did have Alex Sitman pillar my F-Class stock since he was doing the woodwork, (beautiful piece of Bastogne) and he did a fantastic job.
I was told once by an old time BR smith that a proper pillar job was as good as a glue-in, the main reason for glue-ins was to keep
the owner from screwing up the bedding taking the action in and out!::p
Greg[/QUOTE]

As a whole, I agree. That said, there is no fit like a unitized, be it glued, welded, whatever. The two parts act entirely as one, if glued. I'm talking about how harmonics are handled. I'm not going to claim with certainty that I can shoot well enough to see the difference but it is measurable and I saw differences while doing some vibration testing with tuners. I literally put an iron on a glued and screwed action and it came out very clean. I then tested after bolting it back in. It was interesting but I can't say that it shot noticeably different.
I'm about to start another money pit experiment using an aluminum stock. I've never been really impressed with one before, albeit limited experiences.
I plan to apply the same dampening technology that I use in my tuners. It's my money and I might learn that it was costly and worthless or I might find something worthwhile. I did pass the same idea along to a rf shooter a couple of years ago who did it with his stock and he said it was very much worthwhile but his stock wasn't aluminum.

wfcustom
03-15-2019, 11:55 PM
Quote:
"As a whole, I agree. That said, there is no fit like a unitized, be it glued, welded, whatever. The two parts act entirely as one, if glued."

Mike,
I have always been of the opinion that the only difference between a "properly" pillar bedded action and a glue in was the release compound you use on the pillar bed job.
Thoughts? I'd be happy to hear other opinions, like I said all my personal guns are pillared, and I have had some very successful results doing it that way.
By the way your tuners are really helping those 2 new 30 Br's stand up and sing!
Regards,
Greg

mwezell
03-16-2019, 12:41 AM
Quote:
"As a whole, I agree. That said, there is no fit like a unitized, be it glued, welded, whatever. The two parts act entirely as one, if glued."

Mike,
I have always been of the opinion that the only difference between a "properly" pillar bedded action and a glue in was the release compound you use on the pillar bed job.
Thoughts? I'd be happy to hear other opinions, like I said all my personal guns are pillared, and I have had some very successful results doing it that way.
By the way your tuners are really helping those 2 new 30 Br's stand up and sing!
Regards,
Greg

Greg, I look at it as no different that a torqued bolt in a high vibration environment that works loose. At high enough frequencies, I think virtually every joint moves. But I won't go so far as to say that such high frequency, very small movement can be seen on target.

Glad the tuners are working well for you. Thanks for the kind words.

wfcustom
03-16-2019, 12:56 AM
[QUOTE=mwezell;821238]Greg, I look at it as no different that a torqued bolt in a high vibration environment that works loose. At high enough frequencies, I think virtually every joint moves. But I won't go so far as to say that such high frequency, very small movement can be seen on target.

Damn Mike,
Guess that means I'll still just have to watch them lying wind flags!
Or maybe a large tube of blue Loctite?:rolleyes:
Greg

mwezell
03-16-2019, 01:03 AM
[QUOTE=mwezell;821238]Greg, I look at it as no different that a torqued bolt in a high vibration environment that works loose. At high enough frequencies, I think virtually every joint moves. But I won't go so far as to say that such high frequency, very small movement can be seen on target.

Damn Mike,
Guess that means I'll still just have to watch them lying wind flags!
Or maybe a large tube of blue Loctite?:rolleyes:
Greg

I can't recommend loctite on the flags though.;) Lol!
OTOH, at least the flags would be honest in one condition. Lol

TrxR
04-11-2019, 06:34 PM
How many action screws does the borden brm have?

And would the XP cut option be any real benefit?

Wilbur
04-16-2019, 12:30 PM
I'd glue it. I don't know about the recoil lug but I've never had one on a 6PPC...all glued. One would and some would not!

glp
04-18-2019, 09:42 AM
action on my hunter rifle is, of course, a bedded and screwed mounting. It has no recoil lug. The wide rear tang acts as one. I would not use one in your case.

Al Nyhus
04-18-2019, 10:29 AM
In a pillar bedded (non-glued in) rifle, I found that a front (conventional position) recoil lug made the gun handle better in the bags. They were all .30's, so that may have some bearing on the handling improvement.

This is a dovetailed recoil lug on a Panda, though you can't see the dovetail portion very well in this angle. The lug is also screwed from the bottom. Stan Ware did quite a few of these, including my four. This one was for my LV30BR....technically, a Sporter. ;)

Before:

https://i.imgur.com/EIo633Gl.jpg

After:

https://i.imgur.com/zPMsKbLl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/85f0sBAl.jpg

Completed gun:

https://i.imgur.com/PVP77qVl.jpg

Here's a couple more Stan did that I stocked, including a leftie. Bottom is a Kodiak for comparison:

https://i.imgur.com/kcmYsfSl.jpg