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retired
12-13-2018, 02:13 PM
i am looking at a 3 phase converter for a 3hp 220 3p lathe.
strange price spread
under $100 or over $200
any input ?
here are 2 samples

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-3HP-VFD-10A-220V-SINGLE-PHASE-SPEED-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-/232756241295

and
https://www.amazon.com/Teco-Variable-Frequency-L510-203-H1-N-Inverter/dp/B01IFEOVSE

thanks

savet06
12-13-2018, 05:53 PM
I have an Hitachi 2.2kw for my lathe and an automation direct 2hp for my mill and am very happy with both. The automation direct drive was a little easier to set up, but both work well. Once you get the hang of reading the manuals and get yourself a membership to thehobbymachinist.com you will be all set. There is a member there, mksj, that is a wizard with these drives and has links of parameters to get the best from your drive. I use mine simply as a phase converter (inverter? I can't keep them straight) and don't use the speed pot or other features requiring a whole lot of extra wiring.
Hope this helps,
Mike.
I got my automation direct from their website and the hitachi from...maybe wolf automation? Amazon? I can't recall, but I went for the best price. I also picked up a breaking resistor from ebay for like $30 or so. Great addition to the machine and very easy to install. Stops a chuck going 1200rpms in about 2 seconds, and faster if I want in the slower speeds. Anything over 1200 rpms you would have to set the stop speed to about 4 seconds or so.

Butch Lambert
12-13-2018, 06:05 PM
Both my mills are step pulley Bridgeports. One has a Hitachi VFD with speed control pots and braking resistors. The other is a Motortronics with speed control and braking resistors. I love them.

Michael Huebner
12-13-2018, 06:09 PM
i am looking at a 3 phase converter for a 3hp 220 3p lathe.
strange price spread
under $100 or over $200
any input ?
here are 2 samples

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-3HP-VFD-10A-220V-SINGLE-PHASE-SPEED-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-/232756241295

and
https://www.amazon.com/Teco-Variable-Frequency-L510-203-H1-N-Inverter/dp/B01IFEOVSE

thanks

I used the Hitachi Wj200-022sf Variable Frequency Drive 3 HP 230 VAC Single Phase Input which is in the next bracket around $300.
Also depending on how safe you want the installation to be, you should have a "Safety Relay" like a Omron 9SX-G226-T15, which you wire up to stop the inverter working when you e/stop your machine. (I would suggest most don't do this, but I did)
You can try www.CLRWTR.com and ask about the cheaper drives.

retired
12-13-2018, 06:55 PM
i am planning on just phase conversion and std lathe speeds. knowing i can vary speed
if i pick up a vibration at a fixed speed is nice. i have seen others with this issue ,, so far i have not.
foot brake on the lathe so no need for a electric brake.

i'll go look at your suggestions.

retired
12-13-2018, 10:10 PM
i went with a lapond 4hp for 199. looked at the hitachi , but the current model
had no reviews.
got electricians coming over for an est to run 220.
a may have a working lathe before Christmas.
nice present to myself!

thanks

burtona
12-13-2018, 11:34 PM
I use a static phase converter (PHASE-A-MATIC) on my Emco V13 Maximat 3 phase motor. It's worked well on my lathe for 15-17 years with no peoblem. I don't have a brake - foot or electric - on my lathe but I got plenty of time for it to come to a stop. I think I paid $100 for the PHASE-A-MATIC when I bought the lathe.

killswitch505
12-14-2018, 12:49 AM
I put an automation direct GS2 3hp on my mill and lathe last year super easy setup and controls you can remotely locate the HMI on your lathe or mill. I set up the brake function on my lathe for a thread stop using a precision micro switch giving me .0002 repeatability after playing around with the deceleration times. Itmakes threading to a shoulder a dream I went from threading at 30 RPM to 300 no need for a relief cut

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/gs2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_vac)_v-z-hz_control/gs2_drive_units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_vac)/gs2-23p0

https://youtu.be/Ncc72aKgzVY

retired
12-14-2018, 01:17 AM
yes but OUT OF STOCK.
I DID LOOK AT IT
no one answered when i called...
2 strikes and you are out in this case
i did a search no one else had it


I put an automation direct GS2 3hp on my mill and lathe last year super easy setup and controls you can remotely locate the HMI on your lathe or mill. I set up the brake function on my lathe for a thread stop using a precision micro switch giving me .0002 repeatability after playing around with the deceleration times. Itmakes threading to a shoulder a dream I went from threading at 30 RPM to 300 no need for a relief cut

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/gs2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_vac)_v-z-hz_control/gs2_drive_units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_vac)/gs2-23p0

https://youtu.be/Ncc72aKgzVY

killswitch505
12-14-2018, 01:25 PM
Damn..... they’re usually great to deal with I’ve used their brand drives on dozens of projects over the years

retired
12-14-2018, 03:24 PM
yes . just poor timing

Damn..... they’re usually great to deal with I’ve used their brand drives on dozens of projects over the years

savet06
12-14-2018, 08:46 PM
Retired,
I don't have a foot brake ok my lathe either which is why the bra king resistor is so nice. When I kill the power to the forward or reverse lever the chuck stops very quickly and doesn't put too much pressure on the circuitry of the drive. I don't have a thread dial for my machine yet so I have to kill the power and quickly get the cross slide dial backed out or I will hit the shoulder. The faster that chuck stops the less chance I have of hitting the shoulder...that micro switch idea might just have to be on my Christmas list. I really need to just build the darn thread dial!

Pete Wass
12-17-2018, 04:11 PM
turning your tool upside down and threading backward? I do this and have since I started, even with the Heavy 10. Never had the chuck loosen. The Europeans and Ausies I have watched on Youtube don't use threading dial. It's nice to be able to stop quickly though. Joe Pie has a good Youtube on threading the way I have just described.

Happy Holidays,

Pete

retired
01-12-2019, 01:37 PM
well gentlemen,
i am back.
i have it all wired and the vfd will NOT change to 60 hz...stuck on 50.
i go to the setup step for hz, it starts in default at 50, but no action by me will get it to
change to 60. not happy.

rep says i cannot "START VFD, THEN START LATHE"
they say, start lathe then vfd.....will this work ?

i do not want to rewire my ENTIRE lathe, i just want 3p.

please some one tell me how to start my lathe with a vfd WITHOUT rewiring my lathe

brickeyee
01-12-2019, 03:20 PM
The hardest thing is instant stopping a 3-phase motor.

The currents and voltages spike up very badly and can instantly destroy the driver devices in the VFD unit.

Michael Huebner
01-13-2019, 05:42 AM
well gentlemen,
i am back.
i have it all wired and the vfd will NOT change to 60 hz...stuck on 50.
i go to the setup step for hz, it starts in default at 50, but no action by me will get it to
change to 60. not happy.

rep says i cannot "START VFD, THEN START LATHE"
they say, start lathe then vfd.....will this work ?

i do not want to rewire my ENTIRE lathe, i just want 3p.

please some one tell me how to start my lathe with a vfd WITHOUT rewiring my lathe

I know you may not want to here this, but I think you may have purchased the wrong device and maybe a rotary phase converter was a better option. https://www.wolfautomation.com/blog/phase-converters-vs-vfds/

You can just connect the output terminals of the VFD direct to the motor and use the keypad on the VFD. Not something I could live with, but that is the only way if you don't want to wire anything else other than input to VFD and output to motor.

Why they have said "cannot" is the issue you have is when you connect the VFD as just a 3 phase source it does not like its output (Load) opened/removed (ie via a contactor switching - like Star/Delta for instance). If you do this you will likely destroy the VFD.

The output connection of the VFD should go direct to the motor (Motor configured as Delta), then you will wire the FWD, REV, etc as inputs to the VFD. When you request FWD the VFD will drive motor forward and ramp up to predetermined speed. Then you can adjust via a external resistor. (See attached Hitachi wiring example) or the keypad

If you want the installation to be safe and have some or maybe all (you need to add an additional relay for all) of the safety shutdown features you need to basically rewire your machine.

Do you have an electrical drawing of the lathe (in the manual?) and the electrical drawing example of the VFD?

I can take a look at drawings if you wish.

Michael

retired
01-13-2019, 12:02 PM
your answer supports what i have heard so far, BUT NEVER BEFORE I BOUGHT THE VFD.
it appears i will return the vfd as it CANNOT act a simple source of 3 p 220v.
like i said i just want to walk up to my lathe and turn it on, if i have to start the vfd before or after i can live with that.

i have found a rotary phase converter, physically smaller than my last one, cheaper than my last one, same HP rating
and made in the USA.

FOR THE RECORD i received another email from the factory rep, telling me to go change the 50 hz settings at three other places, but no input how to correct the motor "setting" from 50 to 60.

thanks for the offer, but as i stated i do not want to rewire my lathe.
i just want a 220v 3p supply. it seem a vfd CANNOT DO THAT.

DSM
01-14-2019, 08:34 AM
You obviously have something not wired right with your VFD set up. Something is wrong. Mine is wired up using 220 1P and out is going 220v 3PH running successfully. I power up the VFD and pull my apron switch lever and on comes the spindle. Reverse the lever, spindle goes in reverse. Got a pot dial for frequency change in which varies my RPM. Remember, the output on VFD goes direct to motor, nothing else. All switches , dials or whatever get wired into VFD side. Find someone familiar with a VFD in your area to look at it.

retired
01-14-2019, 11:43 AM
this is at least part of the issue.
as i said i do not want to rewire my lathe.
it has an input box on the back with a disconnect switch
that powers everything , not just the motor.
a solid state phase converter or rotary are in my future.


You obviously have something not wired right with your VFD set up. Something is wrong. Mine is wired up using 220 1P and out is going 220v 3PH running successfully. I power up the VFD and pull my apron switch lever and on comes the spindle. Reverse the lever, spindle goes in reverse. Got a pot dial for frequency change in which varies my RPM. Remember, the output on VFD goes direct to motor, nothing else. All switches , dials or whatever get wired into VFD side. Find someone familiar with a VFD in your area to look at it.

DSM
01-14-2019, 12:14 PM
Like I said...you have it wired wrong and won't work properly. So saying a VFD is not a reliable piece of hardware to control 3 phase motors is TOTALLY wrong. Many many people use them and IMO fantastic for controlling small machines. Rewiring is not that difficult...just a little thinking. I'm wire illiterate and I did it. Totally gutted the my grizzly electrical box and did away with all the dated it electrical start switches, transformer and whatever else was inside.

By all means, static is great and has their place in a shop. Especially to run many machines.

retired
01-14-2019, 04:31 PM
please read MY WORDS, not what you think i said.
i am NOT trying to power a MOTOR, i am trying to power an entire lathe.
" Rewiring is not that difficult" is out side my request. i clearly said power my lathe WITHOUT rewiring.


GUESS WHAT a rotary phase converter does, just that. wire power to the LATHE( NOT JUST THE MOTOR).
VFD BEING RETURNED, rotary phase converter incoming.

( there are only 6 wires on the vfd ,2 from 220, 4 out to load ,3 phase leads and a ground, the unit is wired correctly. the UNIT will not change from 50 to 60 cycles, and does not fill my needs)


Like I said...you have it wired wrong and won't work properly. So saying a VFD is not a reliable piece of hardware to control 3 phase motors is TOTALLY wrong. Many many people use them and IMO fantastic for controlling small machines. Rewiring is not that difficult...just a little thinking. I'm wire illiterate and I did it. Totally gutted the my grizzly electrical box and did away with all the dated it electrical start switches, transformer and whatever else was inside.

By all means, static is great and has their place in a shop. Especially to run many machines.

DSM
01-14-2019, 05:43 PM
LOL...I'm not following your logic. You don't want to power the motor, but you want to power the lathe. What else needs power beside the motor? The hampster taking care of motor? Saying the VFD is not a reliable source to provide 3PH power is absolutely false.

retired
01-14-2019, 06:00 PM
if you were to look at a real wiring drawing, you would see
start stop reverse high speed slow speed controls...all between the in box and the motor
you would see an oil pump, a dro, and a light
i realize your lathe has none of these things, but mine does.
the rep said the vfd had to be wired to the MOTOR NOT THE LATHE INPUT.
AGAIN QUIT USING WORDS I DID NOT SAY..I SAID LATHE...NOT MOTOR...THERE IS A DIFF


LOL...I'm not following your logic. You don't want to power the motor, but you want to power the lathe. What else needs power beside the motor? The hampster taking care of motor? Saying the VFD is not a reliable source to provide 3PH power is absolutely false.

DSM
01-14-2019, 07:05 PM
it appears i will return the vfd as it CANNOT act a simple source of 3 p 220v.

Is this not what you wrote? It's not true and my main point.

retired
01-14-2019, 07:14 PM
YES
IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD , ABOUT MY LATHE.
apparently english is not your native language.
please stop


Is this not what you wrote? It's not true and my main point.

dmort
02-13-2019, 10:29 PM
[QUOTE=retired;818430]YES
IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD , ABOUT MY LATHE.
apparently english is not your native language


It has been almost a month now, and I'm wondering how your lathe works and if you are happy with it. Just curious and not offering any advice.

Mort